Federal Pacific breaker hot in off position

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Greg1707

Senior Member
Location
Alexandria, VA
Occupation
Business owner Electrical contractor
I had an unusual situation. In order to work on a 240 volt circuit, I turned a two pole Federal Pacific breaker to the off position. The circuit remained hot. I checked the terminals on the load side of the breaker and they were hot. I had to remove the breaker to work on the circuit. I replaced the breaker.

I turned this breaker on and off several times to no effect. Is this possible? Is it possible for a breaker to not break the connection when in the off position?
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Greg1707 said:
I had an unusual situation. In order to work on a 240 volt circuit, I turned a two pole Federal Pacific breaker to the off position. The circuit remained hot. I checked the terminals on the load side of the breaker and they were hot. I had to remove the breaker to work on the circuit. I replaced the breaker.

I turned this breaker on and off several times to no effect. Is this possible? Is it possible for a breaker to not break the connection when in the off position?
Click to expand...

I suspect it can happen. I have seen switches that break in the on position. With FPE anything is possible.
 
dmagyar

dmagyar

Senior Member
Location
Rocklin, Ca.
Also be wary of panels being backfed thru c/b

Also be wary of panels being backfed thru c/b

I find c/b's all the time that don't show as tripped, when they are so it is part of my sop to check the load side of the c/b with the panel cover off to determine if the c/b is at least operating correctly.

I found in several instances of commercial building where tenant improvements had taken place that some circuits get re-routed from one panel to another, where I came across one that had unknowingly back fed a panel.
 
mxslick

mxslick

Senior Member
Location
SE Idaho
Dennis Alwon said:
If the breaker was back fed it would kill the circuit when the OP removed the breaker.
Click to expand...

Actually Dennis, that is not correct. If you removed the breaker in question, and it was being backfed from another breaker (the likely scenario) it would NOT kill the circuit.

But the real cause here was that it was an FPE "No-Trip" breaker. :grin:

There have been reported cases where the breaker wouldn't open even by operating the handle.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
mxslick said:
Actually Dennis, that is not correct. If you removed the breaker in question, and it was being backfed from another breaker (the likely scenario) it would NOT kill the circuit.

But the real cause here was that it was an FPE "No-Trip" breaker. :grin:

There have been reported cases where the breaker wouldn't open even by operating the handle.
Click to expand...

You are correct. I made a typo-- I was trying to make the point that the OP had to take the breaker out to kill the circuit. If it were back fed it "WOULDN'T", not "would" kill the circuit.

Thanks
 
mxslick

mxslick

Senior Member
Location
SE Idaho
No problem sir.. :grin:

I couldn't begin to count how many times I've done the "forgot the 'nt" in my writings...with embarrassing results. :)
 
quinn77

quinn77

Senior Member
Location
Lake Jackson, TX USA
we had a GE breaker locked out by operations at a refinery. and before we commenced work my apprentice asked...so do we check voltage? and in front of operations( at this particular refinery a lockout was a 2 hour or more process with I&E supervisor verification of "safe" state) i said...of course, you always verify for yourself. and sure enough...the b phase of said GE breaker was still closed...after the 2 hour plant lockout procedure.
so as for my reply...it can and will happen.
 
glene77is

glene77is

Senior Member
Location
Memphis, TN
Greg1707 said:
I had an unusual situation. In order to work on a 240 volt circuit, I turned a two pole Federal Pacific breaker to the off position. The circuit remained hot. I checked the terminals on the load side of the breaker and they were hot. I had to remove the breaker to work on the circuit. I replaced the breaker.

I turned this breaker on and off several times to no effect. Is this possible? Is it possible for a breaker to not break the connection when in the off position?
Click to expand...

Is is possible that the contacts are fused ?
I have seen this.
FP two-pole 40A CB are $87.12, here.

That is an example of why FP lost UL rating in 1981. :mad:
My panel is FedPacific, and is on my list to change-out. :mad:
 
LarryFine

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I've had breakers fail to open when opened manually, and not just with FP. Always check for de-energization, even the second time.

That's among the reasons I don't agree with insurance providers and HUD-type departments that insist on fuse panel replacements.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I have had disconnect switches fail to open all poles, of course they are much easier to do a visual check on.

FWIW the power companies around here require a "Visible break" disconnecting means for co-gen installations (PV / Wind etc.) they will not accept a breaker.
 
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