Using a panelboard as a raceway

[sbutler]

I have a contractor that has used a panelboard as a raceway to reach an adjacent panelboard and I know this is a violation. Where in the Code is this not allowed?

 

[WorkSafe]

I have a contractor that has used a panelboard as a raceway to reach an adjacent panelboard and I know this is a violation. Where in the Code is this not allowed?

Take a look at 312.8

 

[jumper]

Could be legal.

312.8 Enclosures for Switches or Overcurrent Devices.
Enclosures for switches or overcurrent devices shall not be
used as junction boxes, auxiliary gutters, or raceways for conductors
feeding through or tapping off to other switches or
overcurrent devices, unless adequate space for this purpose is
provided. The conductors shall not fill the wiring space at any
cross section to more than 40 percent of the cross-sectional
area of the space, and the conductors, splices, and taps shall
not fill the wiring space at any cross section to more than
75 percent of the cross-sectional area of that space.

 

[sbutler]

I would agree that it could be legal.....but city doesnt like it. Therfore, it is not legal.

Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[jumper]

Local/state amendment or " not in my town" rule?

 

[jim dungar]

Where in the Code is this not allowed?

It most likely is allowed. Except for very small equipment, it is probable there is adequate space.
They need to remember to read the entire NEC reference: "The conductors shall not fill the wiring space at any cross section to more than 40 percent of the cross-sectional area of the space..."

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I would agree that it could be legal.....but city doesnt like it. Therfore, it is not legal.

Thanks for pointing it out.

Really does not matter if city does not like it. Unless they have amendment in writing they gotta like it.
Why do they have a problem with it if NEC does not ?

 

[iwire]

I would agree that it could be legal.....but city doesnt like it. Therfore, it is not legal.

Thanks for pointing it out.

The NEC allows it, unless you city has an amendment changing the NEC rule the city will just have to deal with it.

 

[iwire]

It most likely is allowed. Except for very small equipment, it is probable there is adequate space.
They need to remember to read the entire NEC reference: "The conductors shall not fill the wiring space at any cross section to more than 40 percent of the cross-sectional area of the space..."

I agree and even in a small panel 40% will be upward of 200 12 and 14 AWGs.

 

[jap]

Although allowed this is one rule that I disagree with.
The fill capacity is not as relevant to me as the safety aspect.
I could see it being used as a raceway if the conductors in question originated from the overcurrent devices in that panel,,, but not from a seperate source.

For Example, lets say there were 2 seperate disconnects outside and 2 MLO Panels inside.Panel #2 Feeder runs through panel #1 and panel #1 needs to be changed out.

I could see someone accidently getting into the energized feeder to panel #2 by shutting off Panel #1 feeder outside with the false sense that all of the condutors in that panel were dead.

Just my take on it.

 

[iwire]

For Example, lets say there were 2 seperate disconnects outside and 2 MLO Panels inside.Panel #2 Feeder runs through panel #1 and panel #1 needs to be changed out.

You shut down both feeders, may be inconvenient but it is a design issue not a safety one.

I could see someone accidently getting into the energized feeder to panel #2 by shutting off Panel #1 feeder outside with the false sense that all of the condutors in that panel were dead.

That would not be a qualified person would it?

What about 480 volt breakers that require 120 volt shunt supplies brought into the panel?

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Although allowed this is one rule that I disagree with.
The fill capacity is not as relevant to me as the safety aspect.
I could see it being used as a raceway if the conductors in question originated from the overcurrent devices in that panel,,, but not from a seperate source.

For Example, lets say there were 2 seperate disconnects outside and 2 MLO Panels inside.Panel #2 Feeder runs through panel #1 and panel #1 needs to be changed out.

I could see someone accidently getting into the energized feeder to panel #2 by shutting off Panel #1 feeder outside with the false sense that all of the condutors in that panel were dead.

Just my take on it.

If that person is stupid enough not to know what they are doing then they deserve what ever happens. That job should be done by a QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN

 

[jap]

I Completely agree with both of your responses and knew they were coming.

But in Fact, Although I do it also, I have the same issue with shunt trip installations where the shunt trip control does not arrive from the Panelboard containing the shunt trip device.

On a 480v shunt trip breaker with a 120v control, at least the 120v is not energized all of time, only when whatever trip mechanism is in place to trip it is activated.

 

[jap]

You dont have to be stupid to accidently cut a wrong wire, and nobody deserves to get hurt.

 

[jim dungar]

You dont have to be stupid to accidently cut a wrong wire, and nobody deserves to get hurt.

So what is your take on a pull box containing multiple circuits? isn't there also the potential to cut an energized conductor?

 

[jap]

I'm not trying to be smart here,but a pullbox doesnt have a Main Disconnecting Means to deinergize all of the circuits inside of it.

 

[iwire]

You dont have to be stupid to accidently cut a wrong wire,

Nope, but I just don't see a panelboard as some sort of special place, machines, j-boxes, switches, relays etc often have many sources of supply.

and nobody deserves to get hurt.

I agree.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

We can not write the code to provide protection for every unqualified person who wants to work on the panel. I do not see this as any kind of a safety issue. It is a design issue only.

That being said, the 2011 code addresses this issue by requiring that the panel have a label showing the location of the disconnect(s) for the circuits that pass through the panel.

 

[iwire]

I'm not trying to be smart here,but a pullbox doesnt have a Main Disconnecting Means to deinergize all of the circuits inside of it.

I am not trying to be smart either but a panel has no such device.

 

[iwire]

the 2011 code addresses this issue by requiring that the panel have a label showing the location of the disconnect(s) for the circuits that pass through the panel.

I keep forgetting about that change.