2 Irritating Prospects, Same Week

[jmellc]

2 major irritations last week. Scoped a job at a local motel, refeeding ckts with photocells & new ckt for new sign being ordered. Looked it over well, walked job with mgr & maintenance man, they liked the plan. Worked up a price that night, took it to him next day. He then wanted price just on new sign work. I figured that as we sat. He said he had a meeting Sun with other partners, would call me Mon. Asked if room to negotiate. I said no, he had my rock bottom price. Still no word from him. I figure he's getting other quotes or maybe "sweating" me a few days, planning to call & offer me 10% less or claim a lower bid came it, could I match it? Bad as I need the work, I don't play those games. If he claims a lower bid, I'll tell him to call that EC with my blessings. If I beat the other bid, he'll call him & ask him to come down, etc. Race to the bottom.

Out of town owner called, asked me to look at problems with a rental house. Tenant had taken down a light to check it out, couldn't find problem, needed receptacles here & there, etc. Looked things over, took 2-3 hours finding routes from basement to rooms in question, etc. Called him with prices. He didn't want to pay me to put the light back up that someone else took down. Wanted the receptacles, but not as many as at 1st, too expensive. Could we do it this way or that way & save $? He was pretty sure we could do this & that, etc. I said "since you have a plan, you don't need me. Goodbye" Practically came down to wanting me to coach him & the tenant as they did the work. I know $ is tight, I've been starving. But he has a 2 story house, rents upper floor to nice family, finished basement to some roommates & the garage to a car buff with a classic car. They take good care of property. I'm sure he brings in a decent rent but he cries poor & wants to pick me to death.

I've always tried to keep a policy of not charging to look things over & price a job. Most good contractors did that in my neck of the woods. But I'm close to charging a service call on some of these cases, especially if I have to open boxes, check devices, measure basements, etc.

In the motel case, I know a lot of guys, in several trades, who add $100 to the bottom line & come down $100 if customer wants to bargain. I figure that would make me look a little shady, that I figured the $100 as loot if I didn't get asked about price. I just don't like doing that. But I might start saying, "yes I'll come down $50 if you pay in advance". Or if he calls after a few weeks, say "I can no longer do it for that price." Conditions have changed & it's now $100 more for
the job."

I may seem cynical & grumpy but I'm tired of being suckered by people wanting to save $ at my peril.

 

[kwired]

See how much the motel owner would like to rent you a room for whatever rediculously low price you want to offer him. Tell him you have three other motels that will accept that price. Also tell him that they have accomodations that he doesn't have and they still will accept that price.

 

[LarryFine]

Race to the bottom.

That's one race I'm happy to lose.[/QUOTE]

 

[nhfire77]

In the motel case, I know a lot of guys, in several trades, who add $100 to the bottom line & come down $100 if customer wants to bargain. I figure that would make me look a little shady, that I figured the $100 as loot if I didn't get asked about price. I just don't like doing that. But I might start saying, "yes I'll come down $50 if you pay in advance". Or if he calls after a few weeks, say "I can no longer do it for that price." Conditions have changed & it's now $100 more for
the job."

.

I hate that. Recently did a job like that. I called the guy they had been using (stickers on panel). He gives me the cheapskate lowdown. I pad the price by $250. They ask for the price to be X, which is $150 lower. I hem and haw until I accept his dictation of a lower price. I made $100 more than I normally would. I can't stand a customer dictating a price to me after I quote them, but since I knew in advance, it wasn't so bad.

Its maddening. I hate that. I overpriced myself and still got it, proving its a matter of perspective. I know its just business, but the fact that I have to essentially lie to you what my best price is to get the job is stupid. You with me on that?

 

[iwire]

You guys ever look at the "list prices" are for the equipment we use?

It is just how business is, IMO you should go in with some room to give back.

 

[jmellc]

I hate that. Recently did a job like that. I called the guy they had been using (stickers on panel). He gives me the cheapskate lowdown. I pad the price by $250. They ask for the price to be X, which is $150 lower. I hem and haw until I accept his dictation of a lower price. I made $100 more than I normally would. I can't stand a customer dictating a price to me after I quote them, but since I knew in advance, it wasn't so bad.

Its maddening. I hate that. I overpriced myself and still got it, proving its a matter of perspective. I know its just business, but the fact that I have to essentially lie to you what my best price is to get the job is stupid. You with me on that?

Yes, for sure. I need to get with it & work the customer just as he works me.

I now expect that if he does have me do the job he will drag out paying for it. I specified payment upon inspection. If job happens, I'll tell him before starting that I expect payment before I leave the job the last time. I'll put a lockout on the breaker for the new sign, for safety. Will remove it when check received.

Fortunately for me too, a service change quote came through that I didn't expect to get. A decent job & if the motel guy calls, I can honestly put him off a few days and make him sweat a little. Let him know I don't need him as badly as he thinks.

 

[mivey]

See how much the motel owner would like to rent you a room for whatever rediculously low price you want to offer him. Tell him you have three other motels that will accept that price. Also tell him that they have accomodations that he doesn't have and they still will accept that price.

Bill? Is that you? Live long & prosper.

 

[growler]

I may seem cynical & grumpy but I'm tired of being suckered by people wanting to save $ at my peril.

If it makes you feel any better it's happening all over with the economy in the toile, things are not good.

I've looked at four jobs in the last two days and every job is pretty much the same. Three out of four are trying to sucker someone and the fouth is equipment being ordered out of China that I'm having a heck of time trying to figure out just what the specs. are. I have a lot of information but it's conflictings so I can't do any of the work without getting the correct information.

With a rental property ask the owner how much they can affford to spend and then try to get them up a little on that and let them know what you can do for that amount. Make sure the money is there ( cash , check & credit card ) before doing anything.

 

[renosteinke]

It's a tough spot to be in ... after all, you never win an argument with a customer. Now you know why the word 'customer' begins with "CUSS."

So, what to do?

Well, first, off, remember who deserves your 'best' pricing: those who have something else to offer you- things like regular, repaet business and quick, no-fuss payment. These attributes can only be 'discovered' by history; promises are worthless. Indeed, the unsolicited offering of future work is a very good sigh that the lead is a dead-end!

Otherwise, the attempt to split the job up and 'cherry pick' is aggravating. It is nothing less than an attempt to dissect your pricing method, then wring out the best value they can. Don't let this even get started. For that matter, don't explain any more than you must. Just say "I'll hang the light for $X." Don't give them a song and dance about how you'll do this or that; you've already decided what you need to do. There's no need to give them step-by-step instructions.

That is, answer their first question. How much to hang this light? Well, here's your price. They want a price for something else? Well, that's a whole different transaction. If they're asking you, in a roundabout way, for your design expertise, it's time to start talking about money for it.

They want to participate to save some money? Well, maybe they can. Or, maybe not. You're not under any obligation to play their game. The simple fact is that such folks NEVER let you do the same to them. With them, even if you offer them a price that barely covers your materials, they'll still think it's too much. The sooner you can cut loose, the better.

When in doubt .....

I look at their home. I look at their car. THEN I decide who needs a 'break.'

 

[cowboyjwc]

The tough thing about charging for an estimate, is that if they're trying to not pay you for the job, they certinly don't want to pay you to just come look at the job.

And looking at their house and car won't really tell you anything. I have a really nice house and and two nice cars that me and the finance company own.

 

[GUNNING]

Don't answer that!!!

Don't answer that!!!

I've had 5 calls from national service companies promising lots of work and wanting discounts in the last 4 weeks. One a week. Good work, nice size jobs, reputable companies. Nationally known companies. Completed a bunch of projects and emergency service calls. When I follow up I get a receptionist that is sitting in a crack house. I'm just not answering the phone anymore.

Now I gota ask the wife to sue em. She is my legal department and in house council. Its going to cost me more than the original work orders, and there are so many.

I'm just not answering the phone anymore.

 

[Sparky555]

To the OP...Leave your tools in the truck if you do free estimates. You're doing free diagnostics. If you can't get approval of a diagnostics charge, don't do it. Imaging driving 1/2 hour to a job and spending 1/2 hour to discover a broken switch. The only way you'll recover your hour and a half is with a large diagnostic fee and a small switch replacement fee. Get approval of the diagnostic fee in advance, in writing.

 

[jmellc]

I hope it never gets to the point of charging to look over a job, such as a svc chg or new house, etc. But I'm thinking on a 1 hour charge to go out and diagnose a problem. After all, unless it's something like a burned meter base, some digging is needed to find the problem. Some of these are issues they can't just not fix, they will have to get someone to do it. I've had a few cases of this. A guy called from seeing my truck, wanted me to look at a rental house. Breakers kept tripping. 1 was common, 1 not. I called supply house but could not get a clear # from breaker. I took it out, carried to supply house, they got pricing for me. I went back & gave him a price to replace the breakers. Said he had to see if tenants were willing to pay for it. Never heard that before. I spent 2 hours all told for a job I didn't have a chance of getting, but didn't know it til the end. Similar calls, I think I'll state that I get 1 hour for checking out a problem & giving a price to fix. I knew a TV repair man who charged $35 for a quote, and the TV's were brought to him, he didn't have to ride out. He gave credit if repair was ordered.

 

[petersonra]

There is some line in the sand that you probably should draw on free estimates.

I think it almost has to be based on experience.

I suspect a lot of people are looking for free advice on what to do with the plan to do it themselves. You need to find a way to screen those guys out, but not screen out the people you have a good chance of getting actual business from.

It is not an easy thing to decide.

I get calls periodically from customers I did service calls for even years ago wanting free advice. I usually give it to them, but after a while I tend to restrict what i tell them and make it general enough that it is not real helpful to them.

For good customers, i just do not care. If I spend an hour on the phone with them, helping them through a problem, it is time well spent IMO. And more importantly, in my employer's opinion.

 

[jmellc]

It's a tough spot to be in ... after all, you never win an argument with a customer. Now you know why the word 'customer' begins with "CUSS."

So, what to do?

Well, first, off, remember who deserves your 'best' pricing: those who have something else to offer you- things like regular, repaet business and quick, no-fuss payment. These attributes can only be 'discovered' by history; promises are worthless. Indeed, the unsolicited offering of future work is a very good sigh that the lead is a dead-end!

Otherwise, the attempt to split the job up and 'cherry pick' is aggravating. It is nothing less than an attempt to dissect your pricing method, then wring out the best value they can. Don't let this even get started. For that matter, don't explain any more than you must. Just say "I'll hang the light for $X." Don't give them a song and dance about how you'll do this or that; you've already decided what you need to do. There's no need to give them step-by-step instructions.

That is, answer their first question. How much to hang this light? Well, here's your price. They want a price for something else? Well, that's a whole different transaction. If they're asking you, in a roundabout way, for your design expertise, it's time to start talking about money for it.

They want to participate to save some money? Well, maybe they can. Or, maybe not. You're not under any obligation to play their game. The simple fact is that such folks NEVER let you do the same to them. With them, even if you offer them a price that barely covers your materials, they'll still think it's too much. The sooner you can cut loose, the better.

When in doubt .....

I look at their home. I look at their car. THEN I decide who needs a 'break.'

Your post reminds me a little of a customer with a former boss. The guy had us do a few jobs at his house & his church. We did good jobs for him, he was happy. Then he asked for quotes on the church jobs. We got fewer of them. Then I noticed each time I went out, the job I quoted before had been done by someone, but not very well. Sloppy mounting, loose, unsupported conduits, etc. Our quotes up til then had included an itemized material list. He was using the material list, doing the job & working trial & error. We started giving quotes w/out list. He would call & ask what mtls we would use. We'd say "those notes are at the office, we'll have to call you later." I should have told him #2 THHN for receptacles or 4/0 AL for a light.:roll:

 

[LarryFine]

I hope it never gets to the point of charging to look over a job, such as a svc chg or new house, etc. But I'm thinking on a 1 hour charge to go out and diagnose a problem.

Absolutely! One must differentiate between an estimate for new work and a service call for troubleshooting. I will do most of the former free, unless it's too great a distance for the job size.

When asked for a price to do the latter, I explain that work must be done to find the problem, which will result in either the repair or a full repair price. That work is not an estimate, and is never free.

 

[LarryFine]

Our quotes up til then had included an itemized material list.

No way! Providing that kind of info is work, and requires me being paid.

 

[ptonsparky]

Had customer ask how much, I gave a rate. Just to tell me what is wrong? Yup, when I know what is wrong, I will have it fixed.

 

[satcom]

Had customer ask how much, I gave a rate. Just to tell me what is wrong? Yup, when I know what is wrong, I will have it fixed.

Well call to have your cloth washer repaired you will pay 99 bucks just to get a price on the repair and they put the charge on your credit card before they make the visit

They have a waiting list for service

Call for just about any service and you need to pay the call fees up front with one exception call an electrician and they have a rear illness fear of charging for work

 

[LarryFine]

Yup, when I know what is wrong, I will have it fixed.

Or vice versa:

"When I have it fixed, I'll know what was wrong."