AFCI tripping

[Greg1707]

I recently completed wiring an apartment. The sheet rock is up and I have completed everything. I installed six AFCI breakers in the panel. All six are tripping. They will not stay in the on position. One will stay on until a load is added i.e. a switch is turned on.

I appreciated any help!!

 

[lauraj]

Did you use single circuits for each one or multiwire circuits?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Did you use single circuits for each one or multiwire circuits?

I wondered the same thing. What brand breakers are you using?

 

[nizak]

Possibly a bad lot of breakers? If that's not the case it sounds like you were pretty consistent in whatever you did wrong.

 

[cadpoint]

Did you use single circuits for each one or multiwire circuits?

Since you said "switch", check out your wiring...

I think it's a SR screw that got a circuit in the switch leg. You could run out a coil of wire past the switch, and see if it holds.

Once you isolate the run that's not clear, you could Ohm them out but meggering the wire would ready show you it got nailed

Just thinking out loud if one marked the stud edge on the floor of the box mounting side this might be a visual ID which screw it is on the sheet rock.

Sounds like a great place for vertical stackers when one has more than two circuits!

Possibly a bad lot of breakers? If that's not the case it sounds like you were pretty consistent in whatever you did wrong.

I can't really go with the thought of a bad lot of breakers, I will go with pretty consistent, and murhpy's law...

One just can't share neutrals with a second circuit at all. (OK) old school in that they now have 2 pole shared breakers, but with a single breaker, no shared neutrals.

Good Luck!

 

[templdl]

Disconnect the line, neutral, and the ground for each circuit from the breaker and neutral/ground bar.
Making sure that you have disconnected all of the loads from the circuits in question take an ohm meter and do a continuity check between the neutral and grounding conductor for each circuit. The results should show an infinite resistance or open with no continuity which will confirm that there is no contact between the neutral and ground in that circuit.

I am to understand that that you have confirmed that each circuit does not share a ground with another circuit, circuits which are sometimes refered to as home run circuits. If they do 1p AFCIs will not work.

 

[LarryFine]

Let's start with basics:

Are they wired correctly, with both home-run conductors on the breakers and pigtails on the neutral bus?

Will a temporarily-substituted standard breaker hold under the same circumstances?

 

[hillbilly1]

I would venture a guess that the load neutrals are not terminated to the breaker.

 

[curt swartz]

I would venture a guess that the load neutrals are not terminated to the breaker.

That is the first thing I thought of.

 

[cadpoint]

I would venture a guess that the load neutrals are not terminated to the breaker.

That is the first thing I thought of.

Well Gee Wally ...

 

[Greg1707]

OP and thanks

OP and thanks

Thanks for your suggestions. On Monday I will check out all of these suggestions.

 

[mivey]

I would venture a guess that the load neutrals are not terminated to the breaker.

My guess too. I have found find this with electricians who are installing these for the first time. I'm sure it happens all the time.

Instructions? I don't need no stinking instructions. :grin:

 

[kwired]

Since you said "switch", check out your wiring...

I think it's a SR screw that got a circuit in the switch leg. You could run out a coil of wire past the switch, and see if it holds.

Once you isolate the run that's not clear, you could Ohm them out but meggering the wire would ready show you it got nailed

Just thinking out loud if one marked the stud edge on the floor of the box mounting side this might be a visual ID which screw it is on the sheet rock.

Sounds like a great place for vertical stackers when one has more than two circuits!

He said there were six breakers that do not hold. Are you suggesting all six got a sheetrock screw in them someplace? Sounds more like something installed incorrectly and he was consistant enough that he did it for all six.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

My bet is mwbc or the installer did not hook the afci up correctly. Perhaps the neutral wires were landed on the neutral bar instead of the breakers.

 

[cadpoint]

He said there were six breakers that do not hold. Are you suggesting all six got a sheetrock screw in them someplace? Sounds more like something installed incorrectly and he was consistant enough that he did it for all six.

Yes, I'm probably kin to Murphy on my Mothers side and yes I know the odds and I have no Luck...

 

[templdl]

If I understand correctly you have installed the breakers on "home run" circuits. If so they will not hold.
Please note that the AFCI breaker has a 30ma ground fault sensor. The white pig tail of the breaker is to be terminated on the neutral bar and the neutral of that circuit terminated at the breaker. The breaker then looks for the current to be the same on the neutral and line conductors with no more than a 30ma difference or imbalance. Should the difference be greater than 30ma the breaker will assume that the there is a ground fault and trip.
When a 1p AFCI is applied on a home run circuit the neutral is shared by other circuit sharing the neutral because the neutral can only be terminated on the neutral bar. You can not split a neutral between 2 AFCIs.
I trust that I haven't talked down to anyone but I am as guilty as anybody when it comes to turning my brain off and going into the auto mode.
Basically, they must be installed with the same consideration a one would when a common 5ma GFCI breaker is installed.
If you are backed into a corner with 3w home run circuits already installed you are simply SOL using 1P breakers.
You must consider installing a 2p AFCI with a common trip such as the Eaton Two-Pole
10 kAIC 15 AFCI common trip CH215AF or20
AFCI common trip CH220AF if you have a CH panel. I'm sure other manufacturers alosos have them for their panels.

 

[GlennG]

This is a shot in the dark, and Im not sure if this would have any bearing on an AFCI but maybe the wires are over tightened on the breaker causing them to trip. I have noticed that on a GFCI receptacle if you over tighten the neutral terminal than it will cause the GFCI to trip and not reset until the screw is backed off. This sounds a little crazy but it has happened to me a handful of times over the years and with different manufactures devices.

 

[CFL]

This is a shot in the dark, and Im not sure if this would have any bearing on an AFCI but maybe the wires are over tightened on the breaker causing them to trip. I have noticed that on a GFCI receptacle if you over tighten the neutral terminal than it will cause the GFCI to trip and not reset until the screw is backed off. This sounds a little crazy but it has happened to me a handful of times over the years and with different manufactures devices.

I've seen that alot of times too on gfci receptacles, but never on a breaker. It has to do with the construction of the receptacle. Too much torque must screw with the circuitry inside.

In my experience, 9 out of 10 times there is a ground wire touching a grounded cond. terminal in a receptacle box. In the o.p.'s case though, it sounds more like the grounded conductors are mixed up in the panel.

 

[readydave8]

My bet is mwbc or the installer did not hook the afci up correctly. Perhaps the neutral wires were landed on the neutral bar instead of the breakers.

or the neutrals are not hooked to the right breaker, to make a neat job we used to hook up neutrals first and then hots, if #1 neutral hooked to #2 breaker and the installer had them in order it could throw all six off.

 

[Greg1707]

you were right

you were right

You guys were correct. I checked up on this problem and the installer had not connected the neutral to the breaker. He just connected the pig tail to the neutral bar. Problem fixed.
Thanks.