Arc Flash warning labels

[cowboyjwc]

How come every time I ask a contractor to put on the arc-flash stickers, as required by 110.16, they all act like it's the first they've ever heard of it?

Are you as inspectors getting them? Are you as contractors putting them on without being asked?

I know, I know, you've been doing this for 30 years and I'm the only one that has ever made you do it. :roll:

 

[OTT2]

How come every time I ask a contractor to put on the arc-flash stickers, as required by 110.16, they all act like it's the first they've ever heard of it?

Are you as inspectors getting them? Are you as contractors putting them on without being asked?

I know, I know, you've been doing this for 30 years and I'm the only one that has ever made you do it. :roll:

I usually get the same response. Since its been in the code for about nine years it should be a habit by now!!

 

[chris kennedy]

Are you as contractors putting them on without being asked?

They come with all distribution gear and panel boards now. Beyond me why the manufactures don't stick-em before shipping.

 

[raider1]

How come every time I ask a contractor to put on the arc-flash stickers, as required by 110.16, they all act like it's the first they've ever heard of it?

Are you as inspectors getting them? Are you as contractors putting them on without being asked?

I know, I know, you've been doing this for 30 years and I'm the only one that has ever made you do it. :roll:

I get the same response as you do. I still ask for the lables and won't give an OK until they have them on.

Chris

 

[cowboyjwc]

I get the same response as you do. I still ask for the lables and won't give an OK until they have them on.

Chris

Oh yeah, it's a correction.

I know that Square D already has them on their panels and some of the panels have them in the packets, which usually just get thrown away. I've seen them sold by the roll on the internet, but everyone seems to want to go to the wholesale house and just pick up one or two.

 

[chris kennedy]

I actually have a couple extra labels I carry in my HB nicely pressed in 110.16.

 

[joebell]

These labels fulfill the requirements of 110.16 of the NEC but not the requirement of the label in 70E 130.3(C). I believe the level of PPE or incident energy are required on that label. I was at a facility recently and the safety personel for the compnay where "installing labels to comply with the rules of 70E" but they were more the style of the generic labels that we apply to comply with 110.16.

Do you think they will correlate the the labeling requirements of the NEC and 70E much in the same way they did with the term Qualified Person?

 

[cowboyjwc]

These labels fulfill the requirements of 110.16 of the NEC but not the requirement of the label in 70E 130.3(C). I believe the level of PPE or incident energy are required on that label. I was at a facility recently and the safety personel for the compnay where "installing labels to comply with the rules of 70E" but they were more the style of the generic labels that we apply to comply with 110.16.

Do you think they will correlate the the labeling requirements of the NEC and 70E much in the same way they did with the term Qualified Person?

That is true, but we only adopted the 2008 three months ago and I have not had any projects that required the new labeling yet.

I did tell a contractor today that it was now required and go a serious "deer in the headlights" look.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

They come with all distribution gear and panel boards now. Beyond me why the manufactures don't stick-em before shipping.

Because the code wording says they must be field installed. I submitted a proposal to delete the field installed wording and it was rejected.

1-83 Log #2220 NEC-P01 Final Action: Reject
(110.16)
_____________________________________________________________
Submitter: Donald A. Ganiere, Ottawa, IL
Recommendation: Revise as follows:
11 0.16 Flash Protection. Switchboards, panelboards, industrial control panels, meter socket enclosures, and motor control centers that are in other than dwelling occupancies and are likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized shall be field marked to warn qualified persons of potential electric arc flash hazards. The marking shall be located so as to be clearly visible to qualified persons before examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance of the equipment.
Substantiation: The requirement that this be a field applied label is left over from the original proposal that called for the label to contain arc flash information that was specific to the installation. Now that only a ?generic? warning tag is required there is no reason that it must be field applied. The warning label will have the same effectiveness whether applied in the field or applied by the equipment manufacturer.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: The panel concludes that marking of every item may weaken the safety aspects of the marking to warn qualified people where the instances of exposure to arc flash hazards are pronounced. Equipment manufacturers will not know if their equipment will need to be maintained while energized in a particular installation, therefore necessitating field marking. Also, the requirement in 110.16 applies when changes are made to existing equipment.
Number Eligible to Vote: 12
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 11 Abstain: 1
Explanation of Abstention:
FISKE, W.: We are abstaining from voting on Proposals 1-82, 1-83, 1-84, and 1-85, as they relate to field marking of arc flash hazards. There is no role for conformity assessment bodies (i.e., nationally recognized testing laboratories)
to play in fulfilling the existing or proposed requirements. As we are not an affected party, Intertek has elected not to take a formal position on the four proposals identified above.
_____________________________________________________________

 

[ptonsparky]

Yes, we put them on...even out in the boonies where the only one that sees them is the kid doing the irrigating. Lots of pretty stickers that no one has any idea what they are for. Only gonna get worse with '11.

 

[hurk27]

They come with all distribution gear and panel boards now. Beyond me why the manufactures don't stick-em before shipping.

To answer the above in red:

and are likely to require
examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while
energized shall be field marked to warn qualified persons of
potential electric arc flash hazards.

So I guess it is required to be marked in the field?

They have been required since the 2002 NEC, in other then dwellings, but I do see a lack of them installed in light commercial also, most low AIC rated panels don't even have them supplied with them, but all the panels above 10kAIC I have seen do have them supplied with the panels.

 

[hurk27]

Because the code wording says they must be field installed. I submitted a proposal to delete the field installed wording and it was rejected.

1-83 Log #2220 NEC-P01 Final Action: Reject
(110.16)
__________________________________________________ ___________
Submitter: Donald A. Ganiere, Ottawa, IL
Recommendation: Revise as follows:
11 0.16 Flash Protection. Switchboards, panelboards, industrial control panels, meter socket enclosures, and motor control centers that are in other than dwelling occupancies and are likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized shall be field marked to warn qualified persons of potential electric arc flash hazards. The marking shall be located so as to be clearly visible to qualified persons before examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance of the equipment.
Substantiation: The requirement that this be a field applied label is left over from the original proposal that called for the label to contain arc flash information that was specific to the installation. Now that only a “generic” warning tag is required there is no reason that it must be field applied. The warning label will have the same effectiveness whether applied in the field or applied by the equipment manufacturer.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: The panel concludes that marking of every item may weaken the safety aspects of the marking to warn qualified people where the instances of exposure to arc flash hazards are pronounced. Equipment manufacturers will not know if their equipment will need to be maintained while energized in a particular installation, therefore necessitating field marking. Also, the requirement in 110.16 applies when changes are made to existing equipment.
Number Eligible to Vote: 12
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 11 Abstain: 1
Explanation of Abstention:
FISKE, W.: We are abstaining from voting on Proposals 1-82, 1-83, 1-84, and 1-85, as they relate to field marking of arc flash hazards. There is no role for conformity assessment bodies (i.e., nationally recognized testing laboratories)
to play in fulfilling the existing or proposed requirements. As we are not an affected party, Intertek has elected not to take a formal position on the four proposals identified above.
__________________________________________________

Didn't see your post until after I posted.

So basically the panel is saying (above in red) that they are not always required to be marked?? but yet there is no direction as to when they are, other then what 70E has to say, which is not adopted by most jurisdictions?

 

[petersonra]

To answer the above in red:



So I guess it is required to be marked in the field?

They have been required since the 2002 NEC, in other then dwellings, but I do see a lack of them installed in light commercial also, most low AIC rated panels don't even have them supplied with them, but all the panels above 10kAIC I have seen do have them supplied with the panels.

Perhaps because an arc cannot be sustained at that current level?

 

[ptonsparky]

Perhaps because an arc cannot be sustained at that current level?

I thought maintaing an arc had more to do with the source voltage than the current level. Low fault current may actually increase the time it takes for a fuse to blow so that would lead to sustaining an arc. Yes?

 

[tryinghard]

These labels fulfill the requirements of 110.16 of the NEC but not the requirement of the label in 70E 130.3(C). I believe the level of PPE or incident energy are required on that label.

How so they sure seem the same to me?

Do you think they will correlate the the labeling requirements of the NEC and 70E much in the same way they did with the term Qualified Person?

Hope so if these are really differant, I thought 110.16 has the intent of NFPA 70E 130.3 (i'm spinning out)?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

...
Hope so if these are really differant, I thought 110.16 has the intent of NFPA 70E 130.3 (i'm spinning out)?

The are completely different. The one required in 110.16 is a useless generic warning. The one required by 70E provides the information you need to select the correct PPE for those rare cases when you are permitted to work on or near energized equipment.

 

[tryinghard]

The are completely different. The one required in 110.16 is a useless generic warning. The one required by 70E provides the information you need to select the correct PPE for those rare cases when you are permitted to work on or near energized equipment.

Like testing I am somewhat familiar with 70E arc labeling but I thought 110.16 "warn qualified persons of potential electric arc flash hazards" meant same info 70E lists, I really don't see it here now not in detail anyway I suppose I was assuming.