Why bother with the water pipe?

[dana1028]

I will agree. 2 grounding rods,water line g.e.c. , Also bond h to c water pipes at water heater .They used 2" green pipe when I got city water.

Bonding the hot/cold water pipes at the water heater is NOT a grounding electrode requirement.

Bonding the interior metal water piping system is a 250.104 requirement - it is about clearing faults.

Bonding the hot/cold water pipes together at the water heater is something done by electricians who don't know folks now have indoor showers/tubs along with their indoor toilets.

 

[infinity]

Bonding the hot/cold water pipes together at the water heater is something done by electricians who don't know folks now have indoor showers/tubs along with their indoor toilets.

If you think that here you'll get a RED sticker every time you have a service inspected.

 

[marti smith]

When we use the water pipe as an electrode, we have not inspected the condition of the pipe and we are assuming the following:

It is in a good shape, not rusted, it is metal and has at least 10' of contact with the soil. What if the our assumption is not correct.

What i am getting at is, unless we can verify that the water pipe is metal, has 10' of soil contact and is in a good shape, lets forget about using the water pipe as an electrode and just install two ground rods and call it a day.

anyone else agree with me?

edward, another point worth mentioning is that, even if the metal piping is not in use, and is still within the area of the service, if it is likely to become energized, then 250.4 (A)4 would come into effect.

 

[WIMaster]

When I was an apprentice I was taught to ground and bond everything possible. I have been on enough service calls to confirm that this is still the best policy. Particularly when it comes to lightning protection, you do not want any arcing/jumping and you want to dissipate as much of that energy as possible to ground.

Bonding everything possible provides the best chance of an equpotential plane.
Bonding all avialable electrodes is required in the NEC to provide the lowest possible ground resistance and to provide alternative paths if one becomes compromised to any extent.

This also helps to keep the neutral at 0volts at the point of service should the service side of that conductor have problems, which is not uncommon.

 

[muskrat]

The Techs here did a reading (w/ the proper tool) and the 2" water line was 0.5 ohms to ground. Can't get much better than that. IMHO metal water pipe is better grounding system than 2-5/8 rod.

 

[dana1028]

If you think that here you'll get a RED sticker every time you have a service inspected.

I don't disagree with your statement - but that is only because inspectors don't know what they are doing... I bond hot/cold when I do service work only because it is too much effort to try and educate the inspectors.

As an inspector I don't require this.

 

[infinity]

I don't disagree with your statement - but that is only because inspectors don't know what they are doing... I bond hot/cold when I do service work only because it is too much effort to try and educate the inspectors.

As an inspector I don't require this.

For whatever reason the AHJ for the state has decided that it's required so we install them. Maybe an NJ inspector can tell us why.

 

[tryinghard]

When we use the water pipe as an electrode, we have not inspected the condition of the pipe and we are assuming the following:

It is in a good shape, not rusted, it is metal and has at least 10' of contact with the soil. What if the our assumption is not correct.

What i am getting at is, unless we can verify that the water pipe is metal, has 10' of soil contact and is in a good shape, lets forget about using the water pipe as an electrode and just install two ground rods and call it a day.

anyone else agree with me?

I agree with you, I've seen too many like you say and even without supplemental electrodes. Plumbers can care less about electrodes so future work often destroys this type electrode. Good point about all the criteria of 250.(A)(1) being required to be ?an electrode?, if it don?t have all this it?s just a water pipe (kida like a 6? rod) . The bonding in 250.104 is still going to take place for fault path.