Cord Reels on GFI???

[jwatts]

Do retractable cord reels that are plugged into a ceiling mounted duplex have to be GFI protected if they are not exposed to any type of water or moisture?

 

[jumper]

Where are they located? 210.8 lists requirements for GFCI protection.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

What loads do they supply?

 

[jwatts]

Oops. Forgot to mention that they are being installed in a class room.

 

[roger3829]

Why would you think they need GFCI protection?

 

[jwatts]

Engineer says by code, they retractable, plug in cord reel, has to have GFI protection.

 

[jumper]

Engineer says by code, they retractable, plug in cord reel, has to have GFI protection.

Ask engineer what code reference he/she is citing.

 

[jwatts]

I got the "I am the engineer" speach implying don't question my knowledge. I have had no luck locating anything to confirm or refute his statement.

 

[kwired]

I got the "I am the engineer" speach implying don't question my knowledge. I have had no luck locating anything to confirm or refute his statement.

Don't you love these kind of people. Makes you want to find every mistake you can that they make and make sure they know about it.

At some point they need a "I am the installer" speach with "It is not possible to do this the way you want" and especially "you have all these specifications for things that do not even exist on this project".

 

[jumper]

There are specific locations that require GFCI protection of some outlets that are listed in 210.8, and there are other requirements for areas and equipment listed elsewhere in the code; however, I know of no specific article that says cord reels in general must be GFCI protected.

 

[kwired]

210.8(B) Other than Dwelling Units only requires GFCI protection for 125 volt, 15 and 20 amp receptacles in the mentioned areas. If the receptacle is in an area where protection is required then it must be so. A retractable cord reelthat plugs into a receptacle is no different than an extension cord plugged into same receptacle.

If area served requires a receptacle from 210 part III I think it will require a permanently connected cord pendant and not a plugged in retractable cord reel or other means to permanently install a receptacle.

 

[renosteinke]

Got to love the "I am the engineer" attitude.

I usually respond in kind - that is, pointing out that their papers are absolutely irrellevant when it comes to electrical work. Even if they get to sign off on plans (not guaranteed by simply having the degree), they're not qualified to use a pair of wire strippers, unless they also have a Journeymans' card. You're the expert, and you expect to be treated with professional respect, and not like a retarded chimp with a tool belt. So- show me!

Now, if he responds "because I specified it," well, that's fine. The customer is always right. Just don't let him fob off his responsibility on mythical code requirements.

Oh, and by the way .... ask him how someone is supposed to reset that GFCI device on the ceiling.

 

[jrohe]

Oops. Forgot to mention that they are being installed in a class room.

What type of classroom? If it is a vocational classroom for automotive repair, 511.12 may come into play. I have lost this argument with inspectors based on their claim that the "classroom" can be used to fall under the scope outlined in 511.1. If this is not a vocational classroom for automotive repair, then could it possibly be some other occupancy where other miscellaneous GFCI requirements are scattered through the requirements of the applicable occupancy in Chapter 5?

Don't you love these kind of people. Makes you want to find every mistake you can that they make and make sure they know about it.

At some point they need a "I am the installer" speach with "It is not possible to do this the way you want" and especially "you have all these specifications for things that do not even exist on this project".

And I am an engineer and I enjoy being proven wrong. It helps me learn.

 

[yankj]

I say they do not need to be GFI unless they will be near sinks of any kind (as in an art room, science lab, etc.).

 

[stew]

why not make a copy of the code section that applies and show it to hime and maybe tell him thats what you prefer to go by. You know, whats in the code not in his mind.

 

[kwired]

What type of classroom? If it is a vocational classroom for automotive repair, 511.12 may come into play. I have lost this argument with inspectors based on their claim that the "classroom" can be used to fall under the scope outlined in 511.1. If this is not a vocational classroom for automotive repair, then could it possibly be some other occupancy where other miscellaneous GFCI requirements are scattered through the requirements of the applicable occupancy in Chapter 5?



And I am an engineer and I enjoy being proven wrong. It helps me learn.

I don't think there is a 'classroom' definition in the NEC. The automotive repair classroom still meets definitions of commercial garage as you mention, other "classrooms" can meet other definitions such as places of assembly, health care areas, agriculture areas, swimming pools, to name a few.


FWIW most learning institutions call the places where they do hands on things 'labs'. Some of them are even outdoors.

 

[donf]

Curious

Curious

I'd like to hear the engr.'s answer to the resetting the the GFCI receptacle.

If he/she still demands it suggest that he/she put the circuit on a GFCI breaker.

 

[jrohe]

I'd like to hear the engr.'s answer to the resetting the the GFCI receptacle.

If he/she still demands it suggest that he/she put the circuit on a GFCI breaker.

I agree a GFCI circuit breaker would have been a more practical solution if the GFCI protection is, in fact, required.

 

[kwired]

OP never mentioned that a GFCI receptacle was to be on the ceiling - just mentioned GFCI protection.

 

[petersonra]

If it is not in the specs, write up a C.O. for him to sign.