Need advice on how to bid a project

[antenna2001]

Hi
I have my new business ready to start and I just have a call from a customer building a commissary. He said some electrical work has already been done. The electrician that was doing the work left for personal reasons. He did not pull permits for the work. The customer wants me to pull permits and continue the work. Since this is my first job, I don't know how to treat the part that was done.

How does one pull permits for existing work? The work was done by a union electrician with 20-years experience so I am assuming (I have not seen the site) that it was probably done correctly and up to code.

Assuming that I can inspect the work closely enough so that I can safely assume responsibility and pull the permits, how much should I charge for that?

I appreciate your responses. Thanks

 

[petersonra]

Hi
I have my new business ready to start and I just have a call from a customer building a commissary. He said some electrical work has already been done. The electrician that was doing the work left for personal reasons. He did not pull permits for the work. The customer wants me to pull permits and continue the work. Since this is my first job, I don't know how to treat the part that was done.

It is already done. IMO, you cannot pull permits for the existing work. Did the work he do require permits? I doubt there is any provision in the local codes for you to assume responsibility for someone else's work.

How does one pull permits for existing work? The work was done by a union electrician with 20-years experience so I am assuming (I have not seen the site) that it was probably done correctly and up to code.

What makes you think a guy who did not pull required permits would have done it right?

Assuming that I can inspect the work closely enough so that I can safely assume responsibility and pull the permits, how much should I charge for that?

I would not touch it with a 100 foot pole.

OTOH, it is already there. Pull your permits and make it clear just what work you are doing. There is no need to tell the inspector anything about what was done before hand. You were not involved and it is none of your business, and you do not actually know first hand what happened, so you have no actual factual information to relay about what may or may not have happened there in the past.

The thing is that if the owner did this once he has probably done it before. There is no way to know just what mess there might be. It is not good to meddle in something that you had no part in.

 

[jmsbrush]

Put in your contract that you are not responsible for any existing wiring and etc etc.
Anything that needs fixed or brought to code, charge him accordingly.

 

[tkb]

The other electrician left for personal reasons.
In other words, he didn't get paid. That's why he left.

I would try to contact him before you agree to anything.

 

[growler]

Hi
I have my new business ready to start and I just have a call from a customer building a commissary.

How does one pull permits for existing work?

Assuming that I can inspect the work closely enough so that I can safely assume responsibility and pull the permits, how much should I charge for that?

First off I would be real carefull. I have herd this same story at least a half dozen times, right down to the union electrician part.

If you are interested ask for the name of the electrician and see if you can contact him and see if he got paid. If they won't give out this information then walk away.

If it turn out they are telling the truth ( anything is possible ) and the electrician was just trying to make a few bucks on the side then look at it as a completely new project. Was there any work done by this other guy that would save a significant amount of time? Conduit runs that were done right and in the the right place can be worth something. Anything that you can't check out fast is useless and shouldn't be counted.

If you are satisfied with everything that was done then it's easy to permit the job. You just sign the permit application and your are responsible for everything.

Just be carefull because this line of BS is as old as "the check is in the mail". :happyyes:

 

[growler]

Put in your contract that you are not responsible for any existing wiring and etc etc.

I don't think you can do that unless the first contractor is licensed and has had a rough inspection or trench inspection or something that could be verified. You may not warranty this work because you didn't get to sell any materials but you are still responsible if anything goes wrong because the work is under your license and permit.

 

[satcom]

I don't think you can do that unless the first contractor is licensed and has had a rough inspection or trench inspection or something that could be verified. You may not warranty this work because you didn't get to sell any materials but you are still responsible if anything goes wrong because the work is under your license and permit.

We often hear this same story, a few things may of happened the they may of not paid the tax cheating, trunk slamming, union cheat or They were paying him and they got caught working with out permits, either way you marry that job along with any potential liabilities, and problems once you take over the mess.
As far as pricing the job just figure it from scratch, and if you find there were some parts of the job that saved you any costs then adjust it at the completion point and credit the owner
Don't forget you will need to add in the permit or update fees

 

[iMuse97]

Charge as if you bid the project straight out of the ground.

Charge as if you bid the project straight out of the ground.

I always have found that when taking over a job, there are more hassles and issues than you first supposed. I would create a proposal that included doing the job from scratch as SATCOM mentions, but also be careful to check for any demo. that may be required and charge for that, too. As for credit for work already done, I would be very clear that your permitting the job requires you to take responsibility for the whole job. And I wouldn't give much hope for "credit" for work already done, as that cushion could easily be used up and then some on getting the previous work up to snuff.

 

[antenna2001]

Thanks everyone. Looking at your replies, it seems that I might be able to do it, and as I thought, if I touch it I am responsible for everything. I told the customer that I will stop by tomorrow and see what it looks like. I will make sure I get the name of the previous electrician and try and contact him.

I wish I could just turn the job down but I really need to get some work. Getting the business to where it is now has been a long process and I am quickly running out of funds.

In your experience, would it be reasonable to talk directly to the city inspector and ask him/her what he thinks or should I just stay away from him until it is time for the inspection?

 

[John120/240]

In your experience, would it be reasonable to talk directly to the city inspector and ask him/her what he thinks or should I just stay away from him until it is time for the inspection?

Talk to the inspector about NEC code issuess OK. Talk with the inspector

about another contractor NO WAY. If you are still unsure, enlist a trusted

coworker/mentor to look over the job.

 

[Okie Sparky]

.
In your experience, would it be reasonable to talk directly to the city inspector and ask him/her what he thinks or should I just stay away from him until it is time for the inspection?

I thought the thread would die without someone bringing the inspector into the picture.

Talk to the inspector about NEC code issuess OK. Talk with the inspector

about another contractor NO WAY. If you are still unsure, enlist a trusted

coworker/mentor to look over the job.

I would go have a talk with the inspector right now, BEFORE you bid the job. That way may be you can find out why the other electrician walked off the job, i.e. due to job not being permitted or non-payment by owner, etc. The local AHJ's have a good knowledge of what's going on in the construction trade. They hear all the scuttle-butt that we sometimes don't, this man or dept. can be your ally.
I would lay all my cards on the table with him, tell him about the other electrician that has done un-permitted work, etc. Go over the job with as much detail as you can with him, don't try to hide anything from him. Inspectors are there to help us, they are NOT public enemy #1. I have found, by and large inspectors, are very helpful as long as you don't cross them, just like everybody else. What you don't want to do is try to pull the wool over their eyes, you could get caught and it'll cost you. After talking with the inspector, if you still decide to take the job, bid the job like suggested above, then BEFORE you start the job have the inspector come to the job and look at what's been done, so he knows what you've done and what was done by someone else when he does the rough inspection. This may cost an extra inspection fee, figure it in the bid. This is also known as CYA. Have him document what he has looked at, take pictures or use some method to prove that it was there prior to you starting the job. DON'T rely on the owner to verify this. GOOD LUCK

 

[Strife]

If you gonna ask the inspector, he'll take the easy way out. Like collecting money.
You don't ask:"When do you think we can come and pick up the check?
You ask:"Can I stop by today to pick up the check?"
This is what I do in a situation like this. Present to the customer what needs to be done. The break it down in 2.
1: Things that no way in hell will fly by the inspector, so they'll have to be done.
2: Grey area things that might fly with the inspector, and if it doesn't fly, it'll be extra.
Bottom line, in a job like what you describe, I qualify EVERYTHING I will do.
I had a job like this recently. Small store, 6 receptacles. Shell was done per code, everything else for last 20 years was hacked. I told the owner more than half of what's in there might fail inspection. I told him my price is for the 6 receptacles, PERIOD. I'm not marrying the store.
Sure enough the inspector comes and goes with a fine tooth comb. The customer calls me to tell me I failed inspection. I told him:"I didn't fail inspection, the store did"

Talk to the inspector about NEC code issuess OK. Talk with the inspector

about another contractor NO WAY. If you are still unsure, enlist a trusted

coworker/mentor to look over the job.