Breakers just wont trip

[hillbilly1]

This I have to agree with. The rest is speculation, although they are educated guesses. If I were to pick I'd guess check the N-G connection. Interesting stuff about C-H breaker also.

The "CH" style breaker is not the problem, it's the "BR" style, which is actually a Westinghouse breaker. As with Square D and their Homeline series, Eaton needed a cheaper product to compete with GE, Siemens and others. You don't get a whole lot of "nusiance":roll: trips withe Westinghouse style breaker!

 

[kwired]

The "CH" style breaker is not the problem, it's the "BR" style, which is actually a Westinghouse breaker. As with Square D and their Homeline series, Eaton needed a cheaper product to compete with GE, Siemens and others. You don't get a whole lot of "nusiance":roll: trips withe Westinghouse style breaker!

My understanding is Homeline has same internal components as QO. That is fine and I prefer Homeline over the other competitive models, but why is it at least half price of QO if that is the case?

 

[jim dungar]

My understanding is Homeline has same internal components as QO. That is fine and I prefer Homeline over the other competitive models, but why is it at least half price of QO if that is the case?

Why is a Chevy less cost than a Buick?

MARKETING.

 

[Flex]

they are the Br style breakers, also the short i purposely cause was hot to neutral. next week im going to check the n-ground bond.

 

[masterinbama]

Is it a 277 volt circuit? or 120 volt? Since you said you tried it on a receptacle 100' away, I would venture a guess that XO is not bonded to ground on the transformer feeding that panel.

Exactly what i thought. Had this happen in a medical high rise on the 277 volt circuits. There was no main bonding jumper in the 4000 amp main gear.

 

[WIMaster]

The "CH" style breaker is not the problem, it's the "BR" style, which is actually a Westinghouse breaker. As with Square D and their Homeline series, Eaton needed a cheaper product to compete with GE, Siemens and others. You don't get a whole lot of "nusiance":roll: trips withe Westinghouse style breaker!

I have had issues with homeline, GE, BR breakers and avoid them all whenever possible. I see them as a HUGE liability issue waiting to happen.:rant:
The GE breakers we had in the motors lab when I was an apprentice would not trip on a bolted fault we learned after one group did so unintentionally (phase to phase 208V), it just the wires rattle in the pipe! By the way the panel was located in the lab. I have had other situations like this with ge breakers, but this one was quite memorable.
The Siemens breakers we used in a high rise recently seemed to work very well with the occasional unintentional fault.
I had an issue with homeline breakers that would not put out full voltage a few years ago. We would turn them on and get 40-60V out of them. Sometimes you could get 120 if you turned the breaker on and off numerous times.

 

[kwired]

I had an issue with homeline breakers that would not put out full voltage a few years ago. We would turn them on and get 40-60V out of them. Sometimes you could get 120 if you turned the breaker on and off numerous times.

That possibly may not even be the breaker could be anything in series upstream or could be a neutral problem. For it to be the switch in the breaker you would have to have a load connected otherwise there will be no current to cause a voltage drop.

 

[WIMaster]

That possibly may not even be the breaker could be anything in series upstream or could be a neutral problem. For it to be the switch in the breaker you would have to have a load connected otherwise there will be no current to cause a voltage drop.

The voltage measurement was taken at the breaker with no connected load.
These were found when we were testing the lights and outlets prior to final inspection in a new apt. complex.

 

[K8MHZ]

I have had issues with homeline, GE, BR breakers and avoid them all whenever possible. I see them as a HUGE liability issue waiting to happen.:rant:
The GE breakers we had in the motors lab when I was an apprentice would not trip on a bolted fault we learned after one group did so unintentionally (phase to phase 208V), it just the wires rattle in the pipe! By the way the panel was located in the lab. I have had other situations like this with ge breakers, but this one was quite memorable.
The Siemens breakers we used in a high rise recently seemed to work very well with the occasional unintentional fault.
I had an issue with homeline breakers that would not put out full voltage a few years ago. We would turn them on and get 40-60V out of them. Sometimes you could get 120 if you turned the breaker on and off numerous times.

I have also had 'no trip' issues with GE. I won't install a GE panel.

So far, we have had great luck with Square D, both Homeline and QO. No problems with Siemens, either.

 

[Electric-Light]

i was thinkin that, so i tried shortin a recept maybe 100 ft away and still nothin. Not something i do regularly but im just stumped.

What do you mean nothing? What gave up?

We snuck out a few pairs of tweezers from science class freshman year in HS. I held it with a pair of close pins, stuck it in the outlet in the locker room. It went boom and the U part of tweezers melted and sparks flew everywhere.

In that case, the tweezers gave up.

I know it didn't trip the breaker, because my friend went for round two, using the second pair on the same recep. and there was still 'lectricity there. Not sure if it tripped after that though.

Although I don't know how significant, if the wire run is long inside an EMT, the reactance goes up so the impedance is above the DC resistance. This limits dI/dT. So, its possible the current duration/magnitude doesn't exceed the magnetic trip of CB, but a whisker of a stranded wire vaporizes and clears fault before CB reacts to it.

 

[knoppdude]

I am currently working at a Walmart doin renovations. Have been several accidental wire cut throughs, and even a few exposed live wires above the ceiling that have contacted metal, (my mc toss). On not one occasion has a breaker tripped. Why in the world wouldnt any of the breakers trip. The panels are fairly new Cutler Hammer.

There could be several problems going on, but I imagine that in the rush to get the store open, things may have been "forgotten", I would start looking at the service equipment for any bonding issues. There could be loose connections, missing bonding connections, etc. These are just my guesses, of course it could very well be a bad batch of breakers.

 

[hillbilly1]

Since your having problems with both, I would venture to say the electricians that wired it didn't know enough to bond the service, probably didn't know enough to bond the step down transformers either! I did a lot of wallyworlds a long time ago before they became supercenters, and took over one another contractor had started, he had pulled all black, red, blue, and white for everything, 277,480, 120,208 and 240. What a mess. There was also a couple of cases of 1/2" chase nipples in the storage trailer, apparently they were going to use those between the strip fixtures.

 

[brian john]

But if you are still concerned about the CB?s being the issue, you can send be a few and I?ll test them for you.

IM me if interested.

 

[kwired]

Since your having problems with both, I would venture to say the electricians that wired it didn't know enough to bond the service, probably didn't know enough to bond the step down transformers either! I did a lot of wallyworlds a long time ago before they became supercenters, and took over one another contractor had started, he had pulled all black, red, blue, and white for everything, 277,480, 120,208 and 240. What a mess. There was also a couple of cases of 1/2" chase nipples in the storage trailer, apparently they were going to use those between the strip fixtures.

Apparently if neither service or SDS are properly bonded there was an incompetent inspector also.

 

[hillbilly1]

Apparently if neither service or SDS are properly bonded there was an incompetent inspector also.

Not all places have inspections, or may have had them at the time this building was built, we did not have inspections where I live at until about 8-9 years ago. Then also some inspectors are not very thorough or compentent. Sometimes it's political, our sole county comissoner was quoted as saying that he would fire an inspector if he turned everybody down. I happened to be at a recent inspection of another contractor in NC that had to be completed before I could start work, The inspector looked at the blueprints, glanced at the panel, but did not look at the transformer that was installed with the panel. I know because the cover was completely bolted on. (that was a political one because of who the other contractor was)

 

[kwired]

Not all places have inspections, or may have had them at the time this building was built, we did not have inspections where I live at until about 8-9 years ago. Then also some inspectors are not very thorough or compentent. Sometimes it's political, our sole county comissoner was quoted as saying that he would fire an inspector if he turned everybody down. I happened to be at a recent inspection of another contractor in NC that had to be completed before I could start work, The inspector looked at the blueprints, glanced at the panel, but did not look at the transformer that was installed with the panel. I know because the cover was completely bolted on. (that was a political one because of who the other contractor was)

I am not going to claim that the building in the OP was or was not inspected when it was new. But I think for at least 20 years or so it has been hard to find very many places that do not inspect buildings to some degree that are open to the general public.

 

[hillbilly1]

I am not going to claim that the building in the OP was or was not inspected when it was new. But I think for at least 20 years or so it has been hard to find very many places that do not inspect buildings to some degree that are open to the general public.

In Georgia, X amount of housing starts per year are required before the state mandates inspections. There are many rural communities that do not meet this requirement. For years, the only inspections we had were for septic tank installations.

 

[kwired]

In Georgia, X amount of housing starts per year are required before the state mandates inspections. There are many rural communities that do not meet this requirement. For years, the only inspections we had were for septic tank installations.

Is Wal-Mart opening stores in those communities? They certainly are not in this area. Smallest communities where I have seen them open a store is maybe population of 5000 minimum but more likely at least 7 or 8000, Kind of depends on how many nearby smaller communities are around to support such a store. Communities of that size usually have building inspection programs - for public access buildings at the very least, may be State programs or local programs.

 

[hillbilly1]

Is Wal-Mart opening stores in those communities? They certainly are not in this area. Smallest communities where I have seen them open a store is maybe population of 5000 minimum but more likely at least 7 or 8000, Kind of depends on how many nearby smaller communities are around to support such a store. Communities of that size usually have building inspection programs - for public access buildings at the very least, may be State programs or local programs.

To answer your question, we had a Home Depot built here before we had inspections. Depot had their engineers do the inspection. The Wal-Mart was inspected, but it was built years later because the county commissioner tried his best to keep them out, at least until he came up for re-election!