Bosch 40 amp cooktop

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Greg1707

Senior Member
Location
Alexandria, VA
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Business owner Electrical contractor
The specification for a Bosch cook top state: 40 amp circuit breaker, 240 volts, 3 wires.
Okay, so does three wires mean three wires or four wires?
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
handy10 said:
Does the fact that it is labelled 240 V. mean that the third wire is an equipment ground and that no neutral is required? Other than extra work and material would there be any reason to omit an equipment ground?
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Equipment grounding is no longer permitted to be by grounded circuit conductor and has not been since either 1993 or 1996 NEC, can't remember for certain which. Exception is for existing installations. If you are running a new circuit you have no choice.
 
George Stolz

George Stolz

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Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
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Service Manager
handy10 said:
Does the fact that it is labelled 240 V. mean that the third wire is an equipment ground and that no neutral is required? Other than extra work and material would there be any reason to omit an equipment ground?
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You would not omit the EGC. Apparently, no neutral is required, but I would still pull an 8-3 to keep options open.
 
J

jmellc

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Occupation
Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
George Stolz said:
You would not omit the EGC. Apparently, no neutral is required, but I would still pull an 8-3 to keep options open.
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I would pull 8/3 with ground, regardless. A future cooktop may require it. Houses and appliances get reinvented every few years. The customer may even dislike the appliance & get rid of it while still new. Such has happened. Especially if the run is difficult, I would prepare ahead.

Also, I now always pull #8 for a drop in oven as well. Most all of them used to be 30A that I had seen, but I saw 2 in recent times that were 40A, 1 of them Bosch. It took me awhile to find the label, somewhere near a bottom corner of the door, I think. It was in print smaller than the little labels that come with a GFCI breaker. I had already run 10-3 w/g, had to change it. Didn't have oven handy when I 1st ran it. 8/3 w/g always now.
 
iwire

iwire

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Location
Massachusetts
jmellc said:
I would pull 8/3 with ground, regardless. A future cooktop may require it. Houses and appliances get reinvented every few years. The customer may even dislike the appliance & get rid of it while still new. Such has happened. Especially if the run is difficult, I would prepare ahead.

Also, I now always pull #8 for a drop in oven as well. Most all of them used to be 30A that I had seen, but I saw 2 in recent times that were 40A, 1 of them Bosch. It took me awhile to find the label, somewhere near a bottom corner of the door, I think. It was in print smaller than the little labels that come with a GFCI breaker. I had already run 10-3 w/g, had to change it. Didn't have oven handy when I 1st ran it. 8/3 w/g always now.
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I wire for today, if they want it changed in the future I can come back and and for a price make that change.

Giving away work makes no sense.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
There are many times when you know there will be a cooktop or oven but do not know what particular model it will be. That is the time when you need to be prepared for the larger capacity units otherwise you look stupid for not knowing what to run. Otherwise tell them ahead of time that if you don't know what unit they will be purchasing you will run cable for worst case scenario, but how big of a difference in price is there between 10-3 and 8-3 for runs that often average 50 feet at the most?
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
kwired said:
There are many times when you know there will be a cooktop or oven but do not know what particular model it will be. That is the time when you need to be prepared for the larger capacity units otherwise you look stupid for not knowing what to run.
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Isn't running circuits without knowing the requirements stupid? ;)

If it helps me get the job done I might install more than what is needed to cover my rear.

On the other hand in this case the OP has the info from the manufacturer any deviations from that are on the customer.

For a single run it is really no big deal, if it is a 30 unit apartment building it is a big deal. :)
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
iwire said:
Isn't running circuits without knowing the requirements stupid? ;)

If it helps me get the job done I might install more than what is needed to cover my rear.

On the other hand in this case the OP has the info from the manufacturer any deviations from that are on the customer.

For a single run it is really no big deal, if it is a 30 unit apartment building it is a big deal. :)
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I understand where you are coming from but most people think all it needs is a "220 line" not realizing that doesn't mean a lot to an electrician. A 30 apartment building gets larger conductors if appliances are not specified. Not many apartments get ovens and cooktops unless they are above average apartments and rent for above average rates, maybe units that are ADA will have these.
 
mtfallsmikey

mtfallsmikey

Senior Member
Musings from an electrically-related individual...

Musings from an electrically-related individual...

iwire said:
I wire for today, if they want it changed in the future I can come back and and for a price make that change.

Giving away work makes no sense.
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Let's say you have natural gas installed at your house. You call me to run a gas line to that brand-new fancy Vulcan gas range you and your wife just bought, that you saw on "Extreme Makeover". When I come there to quote the job, I can just pipe up the range, do it cheap and quick, and forget to mention...that for a few more $$$, I can rough in large enough pipe/tees/valves to take care of any future need you may have...want a gas grill, dryer, instantaneous hot water heater, gas logs/fireplace for those romantic evenings? Or, a gas light in the front yard. Just hook it up and you're set.
Instead, if you choose only to run the line to the range, then call me back 6 mo. later to put those gas logs in,(remember the romance part of that?) I'll have to upsize the entire line, and rip out what I had already installed and charged you for. You would be a little preturbed, wouldn't you?...... "Why didn't you put in the bigger line in the beginning?"

Is that giving away work? Different scenarios, but the same principle.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
mtfallsmikey said:
Let's say you have natural gas installed at your house. You call me to run a gas line to that brand-new fancy Vulcan gas range you and your wife just bought, that you saw on "Extreme Makeover". When I come there to quote the job, I can just pipe up the range, do it cheap and quick, and forget to mention...that for a few more $$$, I can rough in large enough pipe/tees/valves to take care of any future need you may have...want a gas grill, dryer, instantaneous hot water heater, gas logs/fireplace for those romantic evenings? Or, a gas light in the front yard. Just hook it up and you're set.
Instead, if you choose only to run the line to the range, then call me back 6 mo. later to put those gas logs in,(remember the romance part of that?) I'll have to upsize the entire line, and rip out what I had already installed and charged you for. You would be a little preturbed, wouldn't you?...... "Why didn't you put in the bigger line in the beginning?"

Is that giving away work? Different scenarios, but the same principle.
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Up selling is not the same as giving things away.

Both you and kwired seem to be forgetting in this case the information about the unit being installed was provided to the electrician. Unless you are getting more money to run a neutral the unit does not need or a larger conductor size than needed it is giving work away and I try not do that.:)
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
iwire said:
Up selling is not the same as giving things away.

Both you and kwired seem to be forgetting in this case the information about the unit being installed was provided to the electrician. Unless you are getting more money to run a neutral the unit does not need or a larger conductor size than needed it is giving work away and I try not do that.:)
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But if I run larger cable or cable with neutral I am going to be getting more money. If I do not know what the oven requirements will be it is definately getting the larger cable with neutral if it needs roughed in. If it can be run when appliance arrives it may wait until then and then it may get whatever the appliance actually requires as a minimum.

The information was provided in the OP and OP still did not know what should be installed because information was not clear.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
kwired said:
But if I run larger cable or cable with neutral I am going to be getting more money. If I do not know what the oven requirements will be it is definately getting the larger cable with neutral if it needs roughed in. If it can be run when appliance arrives it may wait until then and then it may get whatever the appliance actually requires as a minimum.

The information was provided in the OP and OP still did not know what should be installed because information was not clear.
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Do whatever makes you happy, to me you are giving your work away.
 
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