The term "polyphase"

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infinity

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It's just an another term for three phase. It's even mentioned in the NEC, Article 100.

Neutral Point. The common point on a wye-connection in a polyphase system or midpoint on a single-phase, 3-wire system, or midpoint of a single-phase portion of a 3-phase delta system, or a midpoint of a 3-wire, direct-current system.
FPN: At the neutral point of the system, the vectorial sum of the nominal voltages from all other phases within the system that utilize the neutral, with respect to the neutral point, is zero potential.
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
I understand what and why; how do you get the 60 degree phase shift?

Three windings, one per phase of the supply, each with a centre (center) tap and the centre taps connected together.
Think of a wheel with six spokes. The hub is the centre tap.
 

mivey

Senior Member
It's being used by some, but what for? I know we have single and three phase and now a days, very rarely two phase.
Maybe to be sure they did not leave any loopholes in the rule. There may be some old 2-phase services left. It might also avoid any confusion with network services and such.

Not sure why they didn't just say all service costs would be allocated. They start out with "The Rule requires Maine utilities to begin to fully reallocate construction costs paid by customers for polyphase services". Later they say "Reallocation means that each customer pays their fair share of the costs of all shared lines (both for polyphase or single phase) including applicable three phase transformer costs"

They appear to be jumping around on what is going to be allocated. It might be clearer by reading the rule but I did not feel like it. It would not directly address your question anyway.
 

SOG38

Member
Location
USA
Polyphase

Polyphase

Poly is a prefix meaning more than one so this woud be refering to more than one phase.:happyyes:
 

GeorgeB

ElectroHydraulics engineer (retired)
Location
Greenville SC
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Three windings, one per phase of the supply, each with a centre (center) tap and the centre taps connected together.
Think of a wheel with six spokes. The hub is the centre tap.
Ah, so simple when you explain it ... thanks!

We yanks understand the British spelling ... this one wonders why we differ, though. I'll ask my son or daughter-in-law sometime; they are better at languages than I who barely reads, writes, and speaks one.
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
Ah, so simple when you explain it ... thanks!
It's mostly used on lower voltage rectifiers where the voltage drop across the rectifier or SCR device would be significant compared to the output voltage.
With a normal 3-phase rectifier bridge, you have two devices in series with the current at any time.
We also use six phases for the 12-pulse rectifiers at the front end of a variable frequency inverter if the harmonics dictate that requirement. It is usually derived from a unit transformer for the drive with typically a delta primary and delta and star (Y) secondaries.

We yanks understand the British spelling
Although a Brit (not English), I also understand US English. We get a lot of American television here. And my sweet wife is American. But being from south of the Mason-Dixon line, she would be quite offended to be called a Yank.

... this one wonders why we differ, though. I'll ask my son or daughter-in-law sometime; they are better at languages than I who barely reads, writes, and speaks one.
I suppose it evolved differently. And standard spellings for English words in England didn't happen until relatively recently. Standard spelling is generally attributed to Samuel Johnson who produced his Dictionary of the English Language in 1755 which is quite a long time after English colonisation started in Jamestown, Virginia around the early 1600s.

Maybe it was the same for all colonies and where there have been non-native population influxes. I was in Canada for a while and stayed with a friend who had a French wife. As in from France. French is one of the official languages there. French as spoken in Canada by French Canadians, was quite different to hers.

Back to electrical matters before the mods take a dim view of my digression.
This picture, taken during the construction phase, is part of a hexaphase system we built a couple of years ago.
The arrangement as I said earlier, is like a wheel with six spokes to get the 60deg shift. At the end of each spoke is a semiconductor device - SCR in this case. The cathodes of the SCRs are commoned to form the positive leg of the output which you can see as the vertical bars in the foreground.

C12273-twoLHSlimbs02-1.jpg
 

mivey

Senior Member
Is that a true six phase or is that like calling 120/240 split phase "two phase" ?
Do you really think a six-phase load cares whether or not the source of the six voltage waveforms used six phase-shifted voltages? As far as the load is concerned, the end result is the same.



Does the method of creation matter to the load as long as it gets what it wants?:

I have a circuit that takes a single-phase source and sends it through a series of delay stages to create a three-phase set of voltages. As far as the load is concerned, the voltages come from a three-phase generator. The main source only sees a single-phase load. The 3-phase end load sees a three-phase source. Single-phase loads see a selection of single-phase sources. It just depends on where you are standing and how you are using the voltages.



How about about a three-phase source serving single-phase loads?:

Think about the 120/240 center-tapped delta bank. Is it a single-phase source or a three-phase source? It can serve as either but we call it a three-phase bank. We can look at what comes into our panel to determine if the panel is single-phase or three-phase. From that point on, it really doesn't matter about the transformer bank, it only matters what voltage waveforms we are using from it.

To take it further, a 120/240 single-phase panel feeds 120 volt single-phase loads and 240 volt single-phase loads so it can take the place of two different type single-phase sources. The 120 volt single-phase load cares nothing about the 240 volt option as long as it gets what it needs. It only needs a 120 volt single-phase supply although ultimately it came from a three-phase transformer bank.

The source could just have easily been a single-phase generator but the load does not care. Even if we had a three-phase generator the 120-volt load would only extract a single-phase supply need.



Consider what you are trying to label:

It makes a difference in whether we are labeling the system that creates the voltages or whether we are labeling the voltages that the load wants.

In the end, if we look at the set of voltages we have and how they are being used, we can classify those voltages in a way that may or may not be the same as the classification we use for the system that created them.



One more example:

One final illustration would be a 4-wire wye bank that only serves single-phase loads. We call it a three phase supply. As far as each load is concerned, it is a single-phase supply. In this use, the three-phase bank is a three-phase load to the system. But, this three-phase bank is actually filling the role of multiple single-phase sources for the loads, and is not filling the role of a three-phase source.

The loads do not care if the voltages came from one transformer or multiple transformers. They do not even care about the phase shift between the voltages because the loads operate independently.

An important note: When they stop operating independently such that the phase shift between their sources becomes important, then as a group they act as more than a single-phase load.
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
Do you really think a six-phase load cares whether or not the source of the six voltage waveforms used six phase-shifted voltages?
A hexaphase rectifier is a six phase load. It needs six phases displaced at sixty degree intervals.
Similarly with a 12-pulse rectifier.
If they didn't, they would be what they are.
 

mivey

Senior Member
A hexaphase rectifier is a six phase load. It needs six phases displaced at sixty degree intervals.
Similarly with a 12-pulse rectifier.
If they didn't, they would be what they are.
Exactly.

And the rectifier could care less if the phases come from n windings with N degrees separation, or n/2 split windings with 2N degrees separation, or simply one winding with n stages with T/n delay for each stage past the first (the first having no delay). The voltages are just potentials from what is ultimately a bunch of two-wire sources as far as the load is concerned.

In that respect, a phase is simply a voltage. A unique phase in a set of voltages with equal magnitudes and frequencies but coming from unique pairs of wires is a voltage that has a phase angle different from any other voltage in the set.
 
Exactly.

And the rectifier could care less if the phases come from n windings with N degrees separation, or n/2 split windings with 2N degrees separation, or simply one winding with n stages with T/n delay for each stage past the first (the first having no delay). The voltages are just potentials from what is ultimately a bunch of two-wire sources as far as the load is concerned.

In that respect, a phase is simply a voltage. A unique phase in a set of voltages with equal magnitudes and frequencies but coming from unique pairs of wires is a voltage that has a phase angle different from any other voltage in the set.

Somewhat true. In a multiphase system the individual phases are SOMEHOW galvanically related to each other, as one phase is referenced to another or grounded commons. etc. Ex. you won't - not that you can't - have the the phase "a" and phase "b" running at different frequencies.
 

mivey

Senior Member
Somewhat true. In a multiphase system the individual phases are SOMEHOW galvanically related to each other, as one phase is referenced to another or grounded commons. etc. Ex. you won't - not that you can't - have the the phase "a" and phase "b" running at different frequencies.
Well of course when you are grouping voltages into some set that you intend to label as a system of voltages it makes sense to group ones with the same frequency and magnitude. That is typically done with polyphase systems.

As far as the galvanic note, the phases can be galvanically isolated from one another.
 
Well of course when you are grouping voltages into some set that you intend to label as a system of voltages it makes sense to group ones with the same frequency and magnitude. That is typically done with polyphase systems.

As far as the galvanic note, the phases can be galvanically isolated from one another.

"In a multiphase system the individual phases are SOMEHOW galvanically related to each other, as one phase is referenced to another or grounded commons. etc." Consequently; when you galvanically isolate the individual phases from each other they seize to be a multiphase system.
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
In that respect, a phase is simply a voltage. A unique phase in a set of voltages with equal magnitudes and frequencies but coming from unique pairs of wires is a voltage that has a phase angle different from any other voltage in the set.
They don't need to be of equal magnitude to have a phase difference.
 
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