Building steel used as a conductor

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retire09

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Can you bond water at one end of a building to building steel and bond the building steel to the service disconnect at the other end of the building?
Basically using the steel building structure as the electrode conductor to connect to the water service location.
Code section that would allow/disallow this?
 
infinity

infinity

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Yes if the building steel is part of the GES. All electrodes can be tied together to form a grounding electrode system.

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USMC1302

USMC1302

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Location
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If a ground rod(s) is the sole electrode and the GEC is installed in metallic conduit, isn't the conduit actually a better "GEC" than the wire inside it?
 
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hillbilly1

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Owner/electrical contractor
In Charlotte,NC they will not let you, but it's a local thing. I had an inspector try to turn me down on it, but it was an exsisting installation that had passed inspection when the building was originally built. then he tried to turn me down on a ground rod that was no longer connected to the building service, because the service was moved outside, we remoced it from the neutral bar, and put it on the ground bar. he wanted it connected to the new service. Since I already met the conditions of other grounding electrodes, I did not need a ground rod. He just had to keep wanting, because I was not changing it and he could not legally turn me down for it.!:lol:
 
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Cow

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Eastern Oregon
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I was under the impression if an electrode was present you MUST use it. Whether you need it or not.

I have building steel, ufer, rods(installed by accident!), and water pipe electrodes on the job I'm on. They're all present, so they all got used. But obviously, I didn't need all of them.
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

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hillbilly1 said:
... then he tried to turn me down on a ground rod that was no longer connected to the building service, because the service was moved outside, we remoced it from the neutral bar, and put it on the ground bar. he wanted it connected to the new service. Since I already met the conditions of other grounding electrodes, I did not need a ground rod. He just had to keep wanting, because I was not changing it and he could not legally turn me down for it.!:lol:
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The inspector was correct!
250.50 Grounding Electrode System.
All grounding electrodes as described in 250.52(A)(1) through (A)(7) that are present at each building or structure served shall be bonded together to form the grounding electrode system. Where none of these grounding electrodes exist, one or more of the grounding electrodes specified in 250.52(A)(4) through (A)(8) shall be installed and used.
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hillbilly1

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North Georgia mountains
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Owner/electrical contractor
don_resqcapt19 said:
The inspector was correct!
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He also tried that, but I told him if I cut it off, it no longer is available, it's just a piece of metal stuck in the ground, hence does not need to be connected. He was just trying to find something because we were not local contractors, we already jumped through all of his hoops, (many he ok'd previously, then changed his mind, and wanted something different, even though plan review had signed off on it.) They sent me up there to stop his stalling on the CO. He spent three hours trying to find something. But finally relented because I kept shooting him down on his interpretations.
 
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hillbilly1

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North Georgia mountains
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Owner/electrical contractor
iwire said:
But he was right about the rod, although I agree with you, cut a few inches off of it and it is no longer an GE.:)
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I gave him a choice, leave it on the ground bar, or cut it off, because I was not about to trench up 30' of asphalt just to connect a ground rod to the service. We already had a 4/0 from the building steel out there. He chose to let me :)leave it where it was at. Theres being right, but then theres common sense too. Some inspectors lack the latter, but on the average most have some.
 
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IamJonscranium

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Location
Ohio
Do any of you take issue with using building steel as the ground, as opposed to a ground ring? Do you trust that the building steel will stay continuous?
 
Ponchik

Ponchik

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CA
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Electronologist
IamJonscranium said:
Do any of you take issue with using building steel as the ground, as opposed to a ground ring? Do you trust that the building steel will stay continuous?
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By ground you mean Equipment ground? or grounding electrode?

The building steel CAN NOT be used as an equipment grounding conductor. 250.136 (A)

250.136(A) Equipment Secured to Grounded Metal Supports. Electrical ..... . The structural metal frame of a building shall not be used as the required equipment grounding conductor for ac equipment.
 
iwire

iwire

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IamJonscranium said:
Do any of you take issue with using building steel as the ground, as opposed to a ground ring? Do you trust that the building steel will stay continuous?
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It depends, in many existing buildings or buildings under construction you can clearly see the steel is continuous.

OTH there are buildings being remodeled that you may not be able to tell and in that case I would run a wire conductor.
 
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