Kitchen Appliance Branch Circuits Below Counter

[ArcNSpark]

Guys,

I am wiring up a really fancy kitchen. However, the sink is centered on a 12 foot wide window, and the wood window frame comes down low enough to contact directly with the marble backsplash.

In order to stay code compliant, would I be allowed to install GFI protected receptacles below the countertop and have grommet holes cut in?

I'm pretty sure that I'll have to discuss this directly with the town inspector but I was hoping that someone would have an NEC article that might back me up. The HO really doesn't want Wiremold boxes run across the window frame.

 

[kwired]

Guys,

I am wiring up a really fancy kitchen. However, the sink is centered on a 12 foot wide window, and the wood window frame comes down low enough to contact directly with the marble backsplash.

In order to stay code compliant, would I be allowed to install GFI protected receptacles below the countertop and have grommet holes cut in?

I'm pretty sure that I'll have to discuss this directly with the town inspector but I was hoping that someone would have an NEC article that might back me up. The HO really doesn't want Wiremold boxes run across the window frame.

I know everyone involved doesn't like the idea but they also will want to have receptacles to use and would not want to reach through the cabinet to plug in an appliance that is temporarily going to be used. This will only encourage end user to plug an extension cord, power strip or whatever into the receptacle below and leave the outlet strip or other connector above counter more or less permanently, I think most of us agree that is not right either.

You need to either put receptacles in the backsplash, put plugmold on the backsplash, or 'tombstone' type outlets on the counter. I suppose pendant outlets may be acceptable also.

If window is 12 feet wide and there is a sink centered on it you would only need one receptacle on each side of the sink within 2 feet of the sink and a receptacle on wall on each side of window and you have met the placement rules. There may even be something available that uses a smaller opening and contains only a single receptacle that could be cut into the backsplash and be more appealing for owner to look at, yet provides the functionality that is needed. I don't know what they are called but sure I have seen photos of something that will work for this. Granite shop may even know about them.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

IMO, a receptacle under the counter is not compliant. I would either used an accepted pop up receptacle or preferrably a sillite recep in the window sill. Yes, they are tamper resistant.

 

[kwired]

IMO, a receptacle under the counter is not compliant. I would either used an accepted pop up receptacle or preferrably a sillite recep in the window sill. Yes, they are tamper resistant.

That may be what I have seen before. Other than difficulty of doing so, it could be installed in granite backsplash if need to be can't it? Round hole is likely easier to make and is not as large as typical 2x4 receptacle outlet so it will not be as 'unattractive'.

Sometimes the fact that you have something that no one is used to seeing is enough for them to think it is really cool.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

That may be what I have seen before. Other than difficulty of doing so, it could be installed in granite backsplash if need to be can't it? Round hole is likely easier to make and is not as large as typical 2x4 receptacle outlet so it will not be as 'unattractive'.

Sometimes the fact that you have something that no one is used to seeing is enough for them to think it is really cool.

It is a code violation to install a receptacle face up in a countertop-- art 406.4(E). I have installed these in the wood sill of the window not the countertops themselves. These units need wood to fasten them. Won't work in granite splash or non wood surfaces.

 

[kwired]

It is a code violation to install a receptacle face up in a countertop-- art 406.4(E). I have installed these in the wood sill of the window not the countertops themselves. These units need wood to fasten them. Won't work in granite splash or non wood surfaces.

I'm aware of the issue of face up in the countertop. I can see the sill of the window being granite also in many cases. Why couldn't you put wood backer behind the backsplash and cut the hole right and use longer mounting screws to reach the wood backer? Plastic anchors in the granite would work but would be really tricky to get just the right placement.

If there are granite counters I'm sure the budget is not so tight they can't afford the electrical, then again they sure like to make it seem that way.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The screw holes are set up at a 45 degree angle outward. You would need very tiny long screws and you would have to cut out or drill the granite at an angle for the screws

 

[David A Engelhart]

if there is a backsplash (marble), above the countertop, tall enough (2-3/4") for a horizontal mounted receptacle, why not put them there? I've done it many times!
I do not think 210.52(C)(5) allows what is proposed here; hole and grommet in countertop w/receptacle below.
They do make pop-up receptacles that would plug into a receptacle below the coutertop, that are not "up" facing.
http://www.mockett.com/furniture-ha...mmunication-systems/plastic/pcs6-ee-m-90.html

 

[kwired]

if there is a backsplash (marble), above the countertop, tall enough (2-3/4") for a horizontal mounted receptacle, why not put them there? I've done it many times!

I suggested that before but apparently you are not allowed to cut anything into granite except for pass thru grommets in the counter. As if that is any easier to cut than a hole in the backsplash, especially if you find some receptacle that fits in a round hole.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

if there is a backsplash (marble), above the countertop, tall enough (2-3/4") for a horizontal mounted receptacle, why not put them there? I've done it many times!

I don't think there is room to do that as the OP says the wood frame comes down to the counter.

 

[David A Engelhart]

I don't think there is room to do that as the OP says the wood frame comes down to the counter.

I see it says: "the wood window frame comes down low enough to contact directly with the marble backsplash."

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I see it says: "the wood window frame comes down low enough to contact directly with the marble backsplash."

So what do you consider the window frame? Not the trim, he said frame. We are all guessing at this point.

 

[David A Engelhart]

So what do you consider the window frame? Not the trim, he said frame. We are all guessing at this point.

What do you consider the "backsplash"?
At this point, a picture would be helpful.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

What do you consider the "backsplash"?
At this point, a picture would be helpful.

I visualize no backsplash.

 

[kwired]

I visualize a backsplash as being anything from 1/16" above counter to all the way to ceiling. Most likely somewhere around 4 inches, and sometimes all the way to underside of upper cabinets.

Glass people sometimes cut outlet openings in bathroom mirrors, maybe they could just cut some into the kitchen windows in this case:thumbsup:.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I visualize a backsplash as being anything from 1/16" above counter to all the way to ceiling. Most likely somewhere around 4 inches, and sometimes all the way to underside of upper cabinets.

Sure but some of them we cannot install outlets in. I assume from the OP that there is no room for an outlet thus the sillites. Now if the counter extends into the window sill then we have a problem.

Designers need to start reading the code and stop forcing these issues.

 

[kwired]

Sure but some of them we cannot install outlets in. I assume from the OP that there is no room for an outlet thus the sillites. Now if the counter extends into the window sill then we have a problem.

Designers need to start reading the code and stop forcing these issues.

I assumed from the OP that because the backsplash is granite he doesn't think he can put an outlet in it, yet he can put a hole in granite counter to pass cords through. I've seen this kind of thinking before even on laminate countertops.