Legal way to do neutrals?

[rookie4now]

I looked at a job today where a previous electrician had put in a new panel. The previous EC used the original panel as a j-box and extended the old circuits to the new panel. However, they ran a #4 neutral from the new panel to the j-box and used a bus bar to connect all of the old neutrals in the old j-box rather than extending them to the new panel. I guess they did it for conduit fill because it's only about 2', it sure wasn't the wire cost. But then again, only being 2' the conduit fill isn't an issue either. My question is whether or not this is a violation. The closest thing I can find is 300.3(b) which requires all conductors of a circuit to be in the same conduit. However, they are technically in the same condut since the #4 does run back to the new panel in the same conduit as the individual #12s for the circuits.

Thanks

I just don't like the install this way, but is it legal?

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

I looked at a job today where a previous electrician had put in a new panel. The previous EC used the original panel as a j-box and extended the old circuits to the new panel. However, they ran a #4 neutral from the new panel to the j-box and used a bus bar to connect all of the old neutrals in the old j-box rather than extending them to the new panel. I guess they did it for conduit fill because it's only about 2', it sure wasn't the wire cost. But then again, only being 2' the conduit fill isn't an issue either. My question is whether or not this is a violation. The closest thing I can find is 300.3(b) which requires all conductors of a circuit to be in the same conduit. However, they are technically in the same condut since the #4 does run back to the new panel in the same conduit as the individual #12s for the circuits.

Thanks

I just don't like the install this way, but is it legal?

I can't find anything that makes it non-compliant. If you look at 300.3(B)(4) it talks about a SOMEWHAT similar situation.... you know at least the concept of the thing

 

[augie47]

Seems it would be a violation of 210.4 in the '08 Code and more specifically 200.4 in the '011

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I would consider all those wires to be a mwbc and thus as Gus pointed out it is a violation since they would need handle ties across all the breakers

 

[rookie4now]

Seems it would be a violation of 210.4 in the '08 Code and more specifically 200.4 in the '011

Hmm, I like the way you're thinking. I wasn't thinking in terms of a MWBS because each individual wire had it's own spot on the neutral bus in the junction panel. But, you are correct, all neutrals are common from the j-box to the panel. I think this might do the trick.