480 volt lighting. What a pain....

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C

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
I'm having trouble finding switches for 480 volt flourescent lighting that'll fit in a 2 gang box with switches side by side. The closest my supplier came up with is a Leviton WS402(40 amp welder starting switch)

http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?item=63361&section=10047

Now that I posted that link, I noticed it said non-grounding...:rant:

So how does a guy go about switching 480v lighting without using some fat switches that won't fit in a box next to each other? Switch contactors instead? Switch one leg and use regular 277v single pole switches?

I've been searching the forum and came up dry. I could kill the guy who spec'ed 12 480v fixtures in a small shop.

Thanks for the help.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Cow said:
I'm having trouble finding switches for 480 volt flourescent lighting that'll fit in a 2 gang box with switches side by side. The closest my supplier came up with is a Leviton WS402(40 amp welder starting switch)

http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?item=63361&section=10047

Now that I posted that link, I noticed it said non-grounding...:rant:

So how does a guy go about switching 480v lighting without using some fat switches that won't fit in a box next to each other? Switch contactors instead? Switch one leg and use regular 277v single pole switches?

I've been searching the forum and came up dry. I could kill the guy who spec'ed 12 480v fixtures in a small shop.

Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...

Toggle style manual motor controller??
 
H

hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Guess switching the lights at the breaker is out? this is the most common way for 480 volt lighting.

but then I don't see allot of 480 volt lighting inside and the NEC prohibits it if this is a delta supply system, only 277 volts to ground is allowed inside. see 210.6(D)
 
C

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
kwired said:
Toggle style manual motor controller??
Click to expand...

That's what I tried first, the Levitons I was using wouldn't let two of them fit side by side.

hurk27 said:
Guess switching the lights at the breaker is out? this is the most common way for 480 volt lighting.

but then I don't see allot of 480 volt lighting inside and the NEC prohibits it if this is a delta supply system, only 277 volts to ground is allowed inside. see 210.6(D)
Click to expand...

Switching at the breaker isn't an option unfortunately and this is a 480/277 wye system.
 
H

Hv&Lv

Senior Member
Location
-
Occupation
Engineer/Technician
Doesn't 404.8(B) stop you from ganging 480 volt switches like you described?
Can you not use a regular 120/277 switch and switch one leg? I would think that under 404-8(B) that you would have to use the same leg for all fixtures though.

Contactors is the way to go for safety at the switch. When you leave there is no telling who will be replacing a bad switch in a couple of years...
 
R

rich000

Senior Member
Add a box and put switches in seperate boxes? I know that was not what you were looking for, but I was thinking outside the box! :) Could not resist.
 
renosteinke

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
I've used 'definite purpose' contactors for this task many times, BUT .... to be honest, I have been cheating. Technically, you are required to use "lighting contactors."
 
ptonsparky

ptonsparky

Tom
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
renosteinke said:
I've used 'definite purpose' contactors for this task many times, BUT .... to be honest, I have been cheating. Technically, you are required to use "lighting contactors."
Click to expand...

Mine have always been for a definite purpose. Lighting, heaters, motors, etc.

Where do you come up with this...not doubting so much as wondering where the rule would come from.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Hv&Lv said:
Doesn't 404.8(B) stop you from ganging 480 volt switches like you described?
Can you not use a regular 120/277 switch and switch one leg? I would think that under 404-8(B) that you would have to use the same leg for all fixtures though.

Contactors is the way to go for safety at the switch. When you leave there is no telling who will be replacing a bad switch in a couple of years...
Click to expand...

Can't use 120/277 switch. Voltage across switch when open will be 480 volts.
 
M

Mico Opus

Member
Location
A galaxy far, far away
ptonsparky said:
Mine have always been for a definite purpose. Lighting, heaters, motors, etc.

Where do you come up with this...not doubting so much as wondering where the rule would come from.
Click to expand...

As I recall, the only code-worthy use for definite-purpose contactors is to replace an existing one in an engineered panel. They are not listed for general use. if you want to use a contactor without engineering a panel you need to use a NEMA or IEC class contactor, not a definite-purpose one. Leave the definite-purpose contactors for OEM manufacturers and HVAC guys who are replacing them in engineered panels.

Yes, the NEMA and IEC contactors cost a lot more. I guess that's why... :)
 
ptonsparky

ptonsparky

Tom
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
Mico Opus said:
As I recall, the only code-worthy use for definite-purpose contactors is to replace an existing one in an engineered panel. They are not listed for general use. if you want to use a contactor without engineering a panel you need to use a NEMA or IEC class contactor, not a definite-purpose one. Leave the definite-purpose contactors for OEM manufacturers and HVAC guys who are replacing them in engineered panels.

Yes, the NEMA and IEC contactors cost a lot more. I guess that's why... :)
Click to expand...

At one time I had a factory rep try to tell me that Pump Panels were for pump motors only and we could not use them for other purposes. Yea. Okay.
 
R

rich000

Senior Member
jusme123 said:
I only hope you realize that is against code
Click to expand...

Maybe I misunderstood the question. I will admit I do not know much about 480V lighting except some old systems that used a contactor. So I will admit that I do not know this is against code (installing seperate switches in seperate boxes). I was assuming each switch controlled a different section of lighting. Can you point me in the right direction of the code for this?
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
jusme123 said:
I only hope you realize that is against code
Click to expand...

oregonshooter said:
What part?
Click to expand...

rich000 said:
Maybe I misunderstood the question. I will admit I do not know much about 480V lighting except some old systems that used a contactor. So I will admit that I do not know this is against code (installing seperate switches in seperate boxes). I was assuming each switch controlled a different section of lighting. Can you point me in the right direction of the code for this?
Click to expand...

Are you guys confused with maybe 408.8(B):

(B) Voltage Between Adjacent Devices. A snap switch shall not be grouped or ganged in enclosures with other snap switches, receptacles, or similar devices, unless they are arranged so that the voltage between adjacent devices does not exceed 300 volts, or unless they are installed in enclosures equipped with identified, securely installed barriers between adjacent devices.
Click to expand...

I sure hope you can install separate switches in separate boxes, otherwise all the switches in a particular building would all have to be in same box - sounds pretty inconvenient for the user in most cases.

I don't think this section would apply to a switch rated for 480 volts unless there is one that is considered a general purpose snap switch and not a manual motor controller. Only ones I have seen are called motor switches or something of that nature and are rated for 600 volts, 1, 2 or 3 pole.
 
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