SCR Failure

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What are the symptoms of an SCR failure? Non destructive.

Customer has a 200hp dc motor that just decides to stop or looses speed control. The main contactor stays closed. I helped them a week or two?? ago replace the control board and run through the setup procedure and thought everything was fine. Apparently not. Motor will run fine for 20 minutes or so then become erratic or stop. Each start will result in shorter run times. They had found a loose connection at the brushes but no damage and no visual spark/arc via inspection window while it is running.
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
What are the symptoms of an SCR failure? Non destructive.
For converter grade SCRs, the type used on DC drives, I don't ever recall seeing a failure that was anything other than a short circuit from anode to cathode. You can check that with a simple multimeter on the Ohms range - with the power to the panel turned off, of course!
A shorted SCR during operation would blow the supply fuses or trip the circuit breaker. You get a short between phases when another SCR is turned on.


Customer has a 200hp dc motor that just decides to stop or looses speed control. The main contactor stays closed. I helped them a week or two?? ago replace the control board and run through the setup procedure and thought everything was fine. Apparently not. Motor will run fine for 20 minutes or so then become erratic or stop. Each start will result in shorter run times. They had found a loose connection at the brushes but no damage and no visual spark/arc via inspection window while it is running.
You are asking because there is still a problem after the loose connection at the brushes was found and fixed?
I assume that the SCR controller is in the motor armature circuit?

It sounds like the fault is thermally induced. The motor warms up, the fault occurs. On the next run, the motor maybe hasn't cooled down completely so the fault takes a shorter time to manifest itself.

What happens to the current and voltage from the controller when the motor stops?
The contactor, you say, stays in so that would indicate that the controller is still enabled. Or at least supposed to be. The correct sequence is that the contactor has to be closed prior to enabling the control electronics.

If the output voltage from the controller to the motor is high with no current being drawn, that would indicate an intermittent open somewhere in the motor armature circuit. That could be in the controller itself, the cabling to the motor, any intermediate disconnection points, or at/in the motor including the terminal box. Sticking brushes, lack of brush pressure, an internal cable joint becoming loose as the motor warms up?

If the voltage is low and the current is high, that could be a mechanical load related problem.

If both current and voltage go off when the motor stops, that would imply that control electronics is no longer being enabled. That could be dirty contacts on the auxiliary contacts of the main contactor or an interposing relay if there is one. We've had a few recently, mainly in water treatment works. Chemicals in the atmosphere....

I hope the above is of some help.
It's based on my experience of variable speed drives over a number decades. When I first started in that field it was mainly DC drives and SCRs were just starting to come into more common use but, at that time, there was still a lot of older kit that had to be supported and, being young, single, and willing to travel, I was lumbered with a quite a lot of it.
 

Jraef

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San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
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Electrical Engineer
An SCR will fail shorted 99.99% of the time and that's not how it would act if that were the case, the usual result is a blown fuse.

Assuming you know it's not a motor overload, things like that almost alwas turn out to be thermal related in the controller. That would explain why the operational time appears to be shorter and shorter the more you try. Usually there is a thermal cutout like a klixon switch on the heat sink. I've seen that happen just from a really filthy heat sink. A bad cooling fan will do it too, make sure they are all running and there are no obstructions to air flow. If the drive is in a box with other devices, make sure they didn't add something that is over taxing the cooling system.

You might also check the speed control analog input. It of whatever is feeding it might be going bad and you are losing signal. I had something like that happen once because an old wire wound pot was just plain worn through.
 

Open Neutral

Senior Member
Location
Inside the Beltway
Occupation
Engineer
What are the symptoms of an SCR failure? Non destructive.

Customer has a 200hp dc motor that just decides to stop or looses speed control. The main contactor stays closed. I helped them a week or two?? ago replace the control board and run through the setup procedure and thought everything was fine. Apparently not. Motor will run fine for 20 minutes or so then become erratic or stop. Each start will result in shorter run times. They had found a loose connection at the brushes but no damage and no visual spark/arc via inspection window while it is running.

What are the voltage readings at the motor when it's running, and when it should be but.....??
 
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
We have been pretty busy so I have not actually laid hands on the project other than a few weeks ago. I helped replace the control board at that time. They called a few days later with the problem in my OP. I sugggested looking at each and every connection from the board to the motor thinking loose connection. That is when they found the loose bolts on the bracket that holds one of the brushes in place. Brushes are still good. I called last week just to see what they had found the problem to be then made another visit. While talking to the owner I noticed another contol board along with SCRs in his office They know I have very limited experience with this equipment but have managed to get them running in the past. I suggested that money may be better spent replacing the whole works instead of me getting OJT. Two control boards gave them approximately the same problem, that leaves the SCRs or the motor.

If this replacement didn't work I guess I get some OJT. Loose or poor contacts at the power contactor aux may be a start. Wasn''t sure if the gate on one of the SCRs could fail as heat built and what the results would be. Most of my electronics education was done in the late 70s and early 80s with almost no work experinece after that.

Thanks
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
If this replacement didn't work I guess I get some OJT. Loose or poor contacts at the power contactor aux may be a start. Wasn''t sure if the gate on one of the SCRs could fail as heat built and what the results would be. Most of my electronics education was done in the late 70s and early 80s with almost no work experinece after that.

Thanks
As both I and Jraef posted earlier, SCRs in this sort of application almost invariable fail short circuit. I don't think the SCRs are the problem.
It could be the motor or the cabling to it but don't discount the possibility of dirty contacts.
 

topgone

Senior Member
Different equipment but same power electronics

Different equipment but same power electronics

IDK if this fits well with your problem but I have been involved in a troubleshooting job involving damaged SCRs on a braking system of a lifting motor of a gantry-mounted 750TPH bucket unloader.
The culprit in that problem I had was "loose" mounting nuts of the SCRs! We were responding to a service call of failed SCR's and noted darkened SCR metallic parts, indicative of overheating. Just replaced the SCR's with spares and cleaned the cabinet cooling fan filters. Unfortunately, the tech replacing the SCRs failed to clean the mating surfaces and failed to tighten the nuts properly resulting to a re-work after an accident where the bucket teeth almost bit through the cargo holds bottom - a free falling bucket with no DC plugging voltage to slow it!
 
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