Do gas and electricity make good partners?

[iwire]

In NJ this meter socket would have been installed and maintained by the owner. Hence it is under the control of the owner and would fall under the NEC.

It is still under the 'exclusive control' of the utility.

Can the owner of the property do anything to the meter or meter socket without the power company involvement?

 

[iwire]

A meter socket does not meter anything.

Nope, it does not, and neither can a meter withou a socket. The socket is part of the metering just like CTs do not 'meter' but are part of the metering.

Is a service mast not covered by the NEC?

Normally yes depending on the lawful 'point of service' typically at the weather head on masts.

The mast is NEC, but the meter socket isn't? I disagree.

Well we will remain in disagreement, I think 90.2(B)(5)(a) is very clear.

 

[RICK NAPIER]

It is still under the 'exclusive control' of the utility.

Can the owner of the property do anything to the meter or meter socket without the power company involvement?

The owner would need to notify the utility why they accessed the meter socket. Can the utility company do anything to the meter socket such as relocate it, change it or even repair it without consent of the owner?

 

[jumper]

The owner would need to notify the utility why they accessed the meter socket. Can the utility company do anything to the meter socket such as relocate it, change it or even repair it without consent of the owner?

Thanks Rick. I appreciate the support.

 

[jumper]

Nope, it does not, and neither can a meter withou a socket. The socket is part of the metering just like CTs do not 'meter' but are part of the metering.



Normally yes depending on the lawful 'point of service' typically at the weather head on masts.





Well we will remain in disagreement, I think 90.2(B)(5)(a) is very clear.

Bob, read all of 90.2.

 

[kwired]

The owner would need to notify the utility why they accessed the meter socket. Can the utility company do anything to the meter socket such as relocate it, change it or even repair it without consent of the owner?

The POCO can relocate, change or repair it if it is their equipment. It would be a courtesy to inform the owner they are doing so.

Not any different than if the transformer, service drop or other distribution equipment needed repaired or replaced. Any notification to customer is just a courtesy - sometimes they like to know the power will be off and for how long it is expected.


If it is in poor condition and is not theirs they can ask customer to have it repaired or replaced or they may disconnect power.

 

[iwire]

Bob, read all of 90.2.

I have, many times.

It is one of the most important code sections in the book, both part A and part B.

 

[iwire]

Can the utility company do anything to the meter socket such as relocate it, change it or even repair it without consent of the owner?

Yes, per the service agreement I would be willing to bet they can.

For instance, here the customer has to pay for and provided the socket but the utility is free to drill holes in it to instal their locks.

I would bet that is all spelled out in the customer service agreement, just like access to indoor meters.

The socket is not under the control of the customer.

 

[renosteinke]

In the past decade I've seen a variety of changes made by the northern Nevada combined electric/gas utility on this matter. My experience might shed some light on the issue in other places.

To start with, utilities have requirements as to where the service will be set. These days, it's typically within a few feet of the corner of the building closest to the utility feed. All such locations have to be approved by the utility before connection is made. So, for the pictured installation above, I'd first verify that both services are properly located.

That brings up issue #2: how the rules change over time. My utility once WANTED the electrical and gas meters grouped together; all around town you can find installs with the electric meter directly above the gas meter, with the gas equipment inside what we would call our 'working space,' This is no longer allowed, and a service change means you get to relocate the service.

Now, just what IS the rule for gas and electric placement? Well, my PoCo specifies 36" clearance, as measured from the center of the regulator (that funny-shaped big round thing) and the nearest electrical thing that can spark. For example, a circuit breaker or disconnect switch. Meter bases and junction boxes don't ordinarily spark. This 36" is measured in a direct line between the location of the 'spark' and the center of the regulator. The measurement is the shortest distance - and NOT a vertical or horizontal measurement. A simple 'connect the dots' tape measure measurement.

It's very possible that the exact requirements will vary by PoCo, especially when the two utilities are different firms. Most have their standards available, free, on the internet. Check for the exact wording of their rules.

As for the picture above, I suspect that a service change was made without relocating the electrical service.

 

[kwired]

Yes, per the service agreement I would be willing to bet they can.

For instance, here the customer has to pay for and provided the socket but the utility is free to drill holes in it to instal their locks.

I would bet that is all spelled out in the customer service agreement, just like access to indoor meters.

The socket is not under the control of the customer.

Included in those service agreements is also some kind of agreement or easement to come onto the property to perform maintenance or other necessary tasks to operate their system. One POCO here - especially for underground laterals has right in their installation specifications that the equipment becomes theirs and that they maintain it. Customer just has to pay for installing it. Is also stated that customer will be responsible for maintenance of the backfill after original install if it settles.

 

[RICK NAPIER]

Here is a qoute from our local public utility handbook Information an Requirements for Electrical Service. I am substituting the word utility for the utilites actual name. " Utility does not make new instalations or repairs on the customer's premises beyond the "point of attachment" other than on Utility owned equipment." As they do not own and will not maintain the meter socket than it falls to the owner putting under the NEC.

 

[jumper]

bump. Mr. Holland?

 

[Hv&Lv]

If I may add my two cents worth,

As a POCO employee I can say with certainty that we do not own the meter base. This has to be inspected as part of the final inspection, correct? How many times have any of us had to change out a meter base because of burnt lugs? If the meterbase was under the exclusive control of the POCO, we wouldn't need to inform the homeowner that they need an electrician to repair the meterbase.

IMO, per 90.2, the NEC does not cover the service drops and laterals that we string up or dig in under the direction of the NESC, nor does it cover the associated metering wiring that is associated with many of our CT and PT metering.

If you really believe that the meter base isn't covered under the NEC, change one out without an inspection from the AHJ. See how quickly the state licensing board takes to contact you if you are lucky enough to get caught. (don't ask me how I know that:ashamed