GFCI Location

[Drake5265]

I'm sure this has been asked in this forum on a few occasions, Do all GFCI's have to be readily accessible and if so where is it in the code? I only see it for outdoor roof heating and deicing equipment.

 

[jumper]

2011 NEC

210.8 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for
Personnel. Ground-fault circuit-interruption for personnel
shall be provided as required in 210.8(A) through (C). The
ground-fault circuit-interrupter shall be installed in a
readily accessible location.

 

[charlie b]

Please note that the "readily accessible" requirement is new to the 2011 version. We are still on the 2008 here, and that requirement does not apply. It is still a good idea, however, even if not a code requirement.

 

[Drake5265]

Oh Ok thats why I couldnt find it lol. Thanks I just looked in my 2011 Codebook because the building that I work in has little Pantry areas with convection ovens in Microwaves mounted in a wall cabinet and the receptacles behind them are GFCI outlets. Thank You for your help.

 

[infinity]

Please note that the "readily accessible" requirement is new to the 2011 version.

Do you know that section number?

 

[hurk27]

Do you know that section number?

look in post 2:roll:

 

[infinity]

look in post 2:roll:

Boy was that obvious. :roll:

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Oh Ok thats why I couldnt find it lol. Thanks I just looked in my 2011 Codebook because the building that I work in has little Pantry areas with convection ovens in Microwaves mounted in a wall cabinet and the receptacles behind them are GFCI outlets. Thank You for your help.

Those GFCIs may not be required to be readily accessible even in the 2011 code. The rule only applies to GFCI devices that are required by 210.8. That would open the debate as to the pantry area being a kitchen or not.

 

[charlie b]

. . . with convection ovens in Microwaves mounted in a wall cabinet and the receptacles behind them are GFCI outlets.

Did you mean "and"? Convection ovens AND microwaves? Just checking. That could make the difference between whether these areas are declared to be "kitchens," in the context of 210.8. In my local area, this would be a kitchen.

But wait! There is another issue here that could open up a debate! Is a microwave oven an "obstacle," in the context of the article 100 definition of "accessible, readily"? For my part, I think not. If the microwave (and/or convection oven) is (are) simply placed on a shelf, as opposed to being screwed into place, then I think the receptacle behind it (them) would still be readily accessible.

 

[jumper]

But wait! There is another issue here that could open up a debate! Is a microwave oven an "obstacle," in the context of the article 100 definition of "accessible, readily"? For my part, I think not. If the microwave (and/or convection oven) is (are) simply placed on a shelf, as opposed to being screwed into place, then I think the receptacle behind it (them) would still be readily accessible.

If you gotta pick it up, push it aside, or reach over it: it is an obstacle.

 

[jumper]

Those GFCIs may not be required to be readily accessible even in the 2011 code. The rule only applies to GFCI devices that are required by 210.8. That would open the debate as to the pantry area being a kitchen or not.

Doesn't the pantry area have to be on a SABC?

 

[Drake5265]

They are built-ins. The Microwave which is in the top Cabinet and the Convection Oven have to be Removed from the cabinet to get to the receptacles. Which involves removing screws.

 

[charlie b]

If you gotta pick it up, push it aside, or reach over it: it is an obstacle.

Under the rules of the game of golf, yes. Under the rules of the NEC, perhaps not. As we now see, however, this installation requires removal of screws, in order to move the appliances, in order to get to the receptacles. So I would call them obstacles, and conclude that these receptacles are not readilly accessible. So perhaps the solution would be to replace the GFCI receptacles with standard receptacles, and install GFCI breaker(s) in the (locked) panelboard that is located in the electrical room (behind a locked door). Then the GFCI device would be readily accessible. :happyyes:

 

[charlie b]

Doesn't the pantry area have to be on a SABC?

This is not a dwelling unit. See post #4. But even if it were a dwelling unit, presuming the local rules do not call this pantry a kitchen, the receptacles would have to be fed from a SABC, but would not require GFCI protection.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Doesn't the pantry area have to be on a SABC?

Not all of the receptacles that are on the SABCs have to have GFCI protection.

 

[hurk27]

From the OP I took that this is the building he works in and if this "pantry" meets the definition of a kitchen then all plug and cord connected appliances are required to be GFCI protected.:slaphead:

Of course I should point out that this is a very recent code (1999 to 2002 code change) so this kitchen might be grandfathered?

 

[charlie b]

I attended a code discussion meeting this morning, a monthly event that includes participation by local utilities, contractors, engineering firms, inspection authorities, and others. This topic came up. One attendee, who happens to be on one of the NEC code making panels, expressed the opinion that a microwave sitting on a kitchen countertop would not be an ?obstacle? (in the context of the definition of ?readily accessible?), but a microwave sitting on a shelf would be, even if it were not screwed into position. Her reasoning was that we are supposed to test the GFCI device every month. If a homeowner had to take the microwave off the shelf, in order to get to the GFCI outlet at the back of the shelf, the homeowner simply would not ever do that test. So she would fail an installation that placed a GFCI outlet in that location (if the install were done under the 2011 NEC, which has not been adopted in Washington State yet).

 

[pete m.]

I attended a code discussion meeting this morning, a monthly event that includes participation by local utilities, contractors, engineering firms, inspection authorities, and others. This topic came up. One attendee, who happens to be on one of the NEC code making panels, expressed the opinion that a microwave sitting on a kitchen countertop would not be an ?obstacle? (in the context of the definition of ?readily accessible?), but a microwave sitting on a shelf would be, even if it were not screwed into position. Her reasoning was that we are supposed to test the GFCI device every month. If a homeowner had to take the microwave off the shelf, in order to get to the GFCI outlet at the back of the shelf, the homeowner simply would not ever do that test. So she would fail an installation that placed a GFCI outlet in that location (if the install were done under the 2011 NEC, which has not been adopted in Washington State yet).

I am of the opinion that if the homeowner had to move the microwave, regardless of elevation, the test would not be performed (and this is assuming that the homeowner is even aware that a test should be performed monthly). :happyno:

Pete