Gaffen99
Senior Member
- Location
- new jersey
Can anyone tell me why I am required to run a footing ground for an addition? I think I am missing something, if the service is grounded already, why the additional ground? Article #?
footing groung
- Thread starter Gaffen99
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
The code requires that all electrodes present at the building be used--250.50. Now for an addition I think the ahj is going a bit far unless you are doing a service change.
Gaffen99
Senior Member
- Location
- new jersey
All electrodes are required, but I am installing the extra electrode in the form of a ground rod in the footing. It wouldn't be there if I don't put it there. IDK
PEDRO ESCOVILLA
Senior Member
- Location
- south texas
if the service is already grounded,it's not required. have the inspector show you where he gets that it is. here's where it's req'd for new bldgs.2006 IRC E3508.1.1, E3508.1.2,E 3508.1.4, 2008 nec 250.52 (A)1, (A)(3), (A) (4), AND (A) (5), good luck:bye:
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Is there steel in the footing? If the rebar is 1/2" or larger than the rebar is an electrode. The only exception is if you have to break up the concrete on an existing install.
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
I guess I do not see why a new CEE would only be needed for a service change. If one exists already, yeah you do not need a second- but if you create a new opportunity to install one and the structure does not have one, I say inspector is correct,IMO.
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
If one exists in the structure, you do not need a second-But if there is not a CEE and the new rebar qualifies, I say it has to be used.
You need to ground the footing for the same reason if you decided to change your water pipes from plastic to metal after the Service was installed -- code requires certain things to be bonded or part of the ground electrode system.
Do you want to ground this addition or not? If not, you have some choices -- use smaller rebar than what the NEC specifies for UFER gorunds, put plastic under the concrete, or don't use any rebar at all.
If you put an electrode at this addition (whether rod or UFER or something else), it will need to be bonded to your existing ground electrode system. I don't see much in the way of limitations for electrode bonding jumpers -- they can be spliced, you can run it on the building or buried, there are no length limitations, and you can connect to any place on the ground electrode system if the wire to that electrode is sized sufficiently to support your new electrode type.
Do you want to ground this addition or not? If not, you have some choices -- use smaller rebar than what the NEC specifies for UFER gorunds, put plastic under the concrete, or don't use any rebar at all.
If you put an electrode at this addition (whether rod or UFER or something else), it will need to be bonded to your existing ground electrode system. I don't see much in the way of limitations for electrode bonding jumpers -- they can be spliced, you can run it on the building or buried, there are no length limitations, and you can connect to any place on the ground electrode system if the wire to that electrode is sized sufficiently to support your new electrode type.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
If I am not working on a service I think it could be argued that it is not in the job description.
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
Dennis, leave common sense out of this- we are talking NEC.
Code reference, please?
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
I agree. Since when does the NEC require us to bring the old service up to the new code?
Gaffen99
Senior Member
- Location
- new jersey
I get the bonding issue. That pretty much clears it up. Thanks. But, if the footing does not have rebar and is just a pour, I am not required to add an electrode, correct?
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Yes, all other arguments aside, you are not required to install a CEE if no 1/2" or larger rebar with a minimum length of 20' exists in the footing.
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
Now you tell us this.:rant:
Gaffen99
Senior Member
- Location
- new jersey
I was told that there is no rebar, I have not been to the site yet. I was called late today and told that I need to do this and figured I would get some input on it.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Then it's simple, no rebar, no CEE required.
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
So if you repipe your house with copper from PVC, you don't have to bond those pipes? I know the plumber didn't pull an electrical permit, but this just doesn't seem right. Adding a new ground electrode seems like a similar issue.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
I agree that the code wording is murky at best. There are compelling arguments either way.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Not likely to happen and if it did then it should be bonded, IMO. Can they make you-- perhaps if it is part if the permitted work where an electrician is involved, There can be danger involved in non grounded piping but the lack of a CEE is not a safety issue.
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