Hot wire phasing does it matter?

[hurk27]

I hope this link works, it is a local NEC addendum for a jurisdiction that I compete for work in that requires marking of each feeder conductor, and the required color of the markings. They basically made a set of tables for 215.8 (which doesn't exist, yet).
OK, I checked the link in preveiw mde, it does work but starts you at the beginning of the code amendments. The NEC amendments are about halfway down the page.

http://library4.municode.com:80/def...fe12faeb57d60b7758132f0e565a4e&infobase=10323

Now what happens if all the supply houses in your area run out of a color or two on wires smaller then a #8, this was the reason they reversed this requirement a few years ago because it allows more flexibility in what colors you might have to use, you might not have all the colors available, and in this day and age of supply houses stocking bare minimum's its even harder to find what you need.

 

[massfd]

so do you also have MC cable with red-white and blue white for 120 volt loads connected to other than A phase or does all your 120 volt non MWBC's go on A phase? Or how about a 208 volt single phase load connected to phase B and C

No, I was taking about services and feeders. Once it hits the breakers it's anything goes if it's a prefab cable. If it is wire in raceway I will maintain the colors if I can.

Red-white and Blue white MC, what a cool idea for 2014:roll:

 

[the blur]

blue black red is standard phasing around here... in that order. Every panel cover I pull ..... Blue Black Red.
I see no difference as long as rotation is correct. and who knows if someone got mixed up along the way.

If I replace a panel, then I am very careful to keep them how they were.

 

[jack357]

color coding wires

color coding wires

I feel the most important thing about phasing out wires is if we have paralleled conductors. If we are in the habit of phasing out this will keep us on our toes.
I wet worked in Canada during the boom. All the downtown lighting was 600/348 color coded blue/black/red.:bye: ( how do ya figger???) Sorry about the spelling, I don't know how to use spell-check.

 

[WIMaster]

Wisconsin has "recommended" color coding listed in our state code, comm.16, but it is only "recommended" 120/208 bk,r,bl 277/480 br,or,yel .

In the NEC there are requirement for phasing of switchgear/panelboards, (A,B,C phase)but there are no requirements for specific colors.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

... Red-white and Blue white MC, what a cool idea for 2014:roll:

If you have more than on voltage system in the building and you are using black, red, blue for the low voltage identification, that is already required and has been since the 2008 code.

 

[jeremysterling]

blue black red is standard phasing around here... in that order. Every panel cover I pull ..... Blue Black Red.
I see no difference as long as rotation is correct. and who knows if someone got mixed up along the way.

If I replace a panel, then I am very careful to keep them how they were.

In Austin TX, the local code requires 208Y/120V system to have red(A), black(B), blue(C) phasing.

480Y/277V is brown(A), yellow(B), purple(C). Since I'm originally from Houston, this took some getting used to.

 

[jmellc]

That's a pretty broad question, isn't it?

In the case I mentioned, it was a three phase service with panels deriving two of their phases from it in an apartment. We used 3-conductor (plus ground) SE-R to feed the panels, which means there was only a black and a red. I can guarantee you only 33% of the panels at best had the correct phasing, yet for some reason the inspector thought it was a mark of quality to have the black conductor on the left and the red conductor on the right. You see what I mean?

Would it matter enough to you to trace through the gear and determine which blacks and reds should be blue, and so on?

Not a bad idea to number them as well, when having multiple loads like that. Helps any future tracing/troubleshooting. Phasing blues would have been good too, to stay consistent. Various panels would show blk/red, red/blu, blu/blk. But you also have to do as the boss calls for sometimes.

Whether in a required situation or not, I find proper phasing helps a lot in keeping some sense of order. I sometimes have to break that if using MC cable. As a little guy, I can't keep all colors of MC on the truck.

The inspector likely didn't inspect much commercial work or he wouldn't have thought so highly of blk left & red right. He's used to 240 services from a nearby txf where on one knows which actual phases go to that service. Blk & red are all you can do there.

 

[PEDRO ESCOVILLA]

these phase colors are all from the National Electrical Safety Code, (Not the NEC) and are industry standard in many areas. I was taught about this stuff by a State Electrical Inspector who was my apprenticeship instructor in Vermont, in 2nd year Electrical . I sort of assumed it was taught as part of apprenticeship schooling everywhere. Naive , I suppose on my part, eh?

 

[mark32]

I recently wired up a generator panel and one of the circuits the customer wanted in the panel was one leg of a multi-wire circuit so I had to bring the other leg into the gen panel. I only had red with me so both conductors going to the associated double pole breaker are red. The inspector seems to be particular, do you think he'd make me tape/re-identify one of the conductors??

 

[wirenut3]

I recently wired up a generator panel and one of the circuits the customer wanted in the panel was one leg of a multi-wire circuit so I had to bring the other leg into the gen panel. I only had red with me so both conductors going to the associated double pole breaker are red. The inspector seems to be particular, do you think he'd make me tape/re-identify one of the conductors??

For #12 or #14 awg wire-doubt it.

 

[hillbilly1]

In Austin TX, the local code requires 208Y/120V system to have red(A), black(B), blue(C) phasing.

480Y/277V is brown(A), yellow(B), purple(C). Since I'm originally from Houston, this took some getting used to.

When I first got in the trade, that was the norm (except ours was Yellow (A), Brown (B), Purple (C), Since it is politically incorrect, I will not tell the acronym for it, but the reasoning behind going to the "BOY" coding was that brown and purple was hard to distinguish in low light, so orange replaced purple. Confuses some inspectors if you have a 120/240 delta system along with a 277/480 system.:roll:

 

[jmellc]

When I first got in the trade, that was the norm (except ours was Yellow (A), Brown (B), Purple (C), Since it is politically incorrect, I will not tell the acronym for it, but the reasoning behind going to the "BOY" coding was that brown and purple was hard to distinguish in low light, so orange replaced purple. Confuses some inspectors if you have a 120/240 delta system along with a 277/480 system.:roll:

We learn something every day. I never heard that about purple. I've only seen purple used as a special use, such as 2nd conductor on some dimmer panels or occasionally travelers for 3 way switches. Seen it some in control wiring too, but mostly red there. Seen it some in alarm wiring.

I find that color confusion true with dark green too. No problem in good light, but in dim light, dark green looks black. Light, "preppy" green is easy to spot in nearly any lighting.

 

[kwired]

We learn something every day. I never heard that about purple. I've only seen purple used as a special use, such as 2nd conductor on some dimmer panels or occasionally travelers for 3 way switches. Seen it some in control wiring too, but mostly red there. Seen it some in alarm wiring.

I find that color confusion true with dark green too. No problem in good light, but in dim light, dark green looks black. Light, "preppy" green is easy to spot in nearly any lighting.

I have color blindness issues. certain shades of reds and greens are difficult to distinguish apart. Normally not a problem in good lighting with most colors of wiring insulation. Get into poor lighting and that starts to change. Mercury vapor lighting is horrible. Rmember one time looking at a 3 wire UF cable in MV lighting - the red, which did look different from the black so I could still tell them apart, did not even look close to red.

 

[ggunn]

I have color blindness issues. certain shades of reds and greens are difficult to distinguish apart. Normally not a problem in good lighting with most colors of wiring insulation. Get into poor lighting and that starts to change. Mercury vapor lighting is horrible. Rmember one time looking at a 3 wire UF cable in MV lighting - the red, which did look different from the black so I could still tell them apart, did not even look close to red.

Lighting with limited spectral content can be a problem for folks without color blindness issues, too. Blue looks black under sodium lights, and red looks black under mercury lights. Monochromatic LED's are worse.

 

[jmellc]

I can't place what lights use mercury vapor but I hate sodium, can't stand the dingy yellow light they give. I like standard incandescent or metal halide. Some warm white or daybright flourscent are good to.

 

[kwired]

I can't place what lights use mercury vapor but I hate sodium, can't stand the dingy yellow light they give. I like standard incandescent or metal halide. Some warm white or daybright flourscent are good to.

Not many using mercury vapor anymore. 25-30 plus years ago was a lot more. Mostly outdoor lighting, especially streets, parking lots. Terrible color rendition, as is sodium, but both are an OK source for this type of area, better than darkness. Used to put a lot of these on farms as security lighting and general area lighting but now mostly using sodium, and some MH.

 

[jmellc]

Sodium is dingy & depressing to me. MH is bright & clean. If I wanted shadows, I'd light a kerosene lantern.

 

[ggunn]

I can't place what lights use mercury vapor but I hate sodium, can't stand the dingy yellow light they give. I like standard incandescent or metal halide. Some warm white or daybright flourscent are good to.

Mercury vapor lights have almost no red in them, so they look very blue. They look similar to a lot of "white" LED's in that respect. Any colored object only looks that color because of reflected light, and if the incident light is lacking in that part of the visible spectrum, what you are looking at looks black.

 

[kwired]

Sodium is dingy & depressing to me. MH is bright & clean. If I wanted shadows, I'd light a kerosene lantern.

Shadows is really a different issue. Yes the light is poor color rendition which probably increases the look of shadows.

Our only reference for what we call true colors is the sun. If our sun were some other color like a red, or blue star then this true color base (at least for us) would be different. Sodium lights may seem bright as compared to a red sun.