Being an Apprentice and Business Owner = Conflict of Interest for Potential Employer?

[istac]

I'd appreciate any insight on this situation. This is as short as I can make it:

I am a residential trainee in Washington state. Green, but with a solid background in general construction. My long-time friend, who is a licensed journeyman, and I decided to go into business together. He is from NY, I am from Washington, and the business operates in Washington. We formed an LLC, of which I am a partner. My friend was looking to relocate to Seattle for a few years and take advantage of the better market. I was in the business to work toward my license, and learn the trade.

Now, its looking like my friend wants to be primarily based in NY. In turn, I am looking for a more normal/stable work situation. So I contacted a company. Based on my resume, they were eager to have me come down and try out for a few days. But, I got a call back later saying that had found out that I was a partner/co-owner of a contracting company, and rescinded the offer. The only way he would hire me is if I closed the LLC. Not a decision to be made lightly.

The explanation the potential employer offered was that I have a conflict of interest. The notion caught me off-guard, but after some thought, I saw his point. He also told me that going forward, I would have the same problem when applying to other companies/contractors.

I'd like to get some perspectives on this, whether or not this guy is right. I'm 31- just finished my undergrad degree. After 500hrs of residential work, I've decided that this is the path I want to pursue. I'm really looking forward to getting things together in my working life and didn't expect this type of obstacle. I just want to work

 

[Fulthrotl]

I'd appreciate any insight on this situation. This is as short as I can make it:

I'd like to get some perspectives on this, whether or not this guy is right. I'm 31- just finished my undergrad degree. After 500hrs of residential work, I've decided that this is the path I want to pursue. I'm really looking forward to getting things together in my working life and didn't expect this type of obstacle. I just want to work

well, if the contracting firm was in another state, it might not make a difference to some
people, but if the LLC is in the same state you live in, then you can be doing work from
the same pool as your prospective employer, or building business relationships while
working for him, that will leave when you do.

so, his point of view is reasonable. and, i'm afraid you might discover, typical.
unless someone doesn't bother to check, and just hires you, you may be up
the creek with a short paddle.

 

[jaylectricity]

How did they find out?

 

[ptonsparky]

Just a name search will find the basics. Pay a few dollars and not much is a secret.

 

[cadpoint]

You need to get an understanding of the laws in your State from a lawyer that practices law in your State.

Frankly, reading your statement I felt that they could easily cover your employment with a no compete clause.

There's licensced electricians in NC that work for major EC firms that it works both ways, no one can't do
any side work(company policy), or yes there is no declaration; one can go do their thing and SO it's either presented in
a Company policy or even in the CO manuals... etc., or it's not.

You will not cause this one company to consider your employment in any other light, JMO.

 

[istac]

Thanks for the response.

so, his point of view is reasonable. and, i'm afraid you might discover, typical.

Yeah, that is what I was starting to suspect. So, thanks for that insight.

 

[jmellc]

If your partner is already wanting to return to NY, that is a problem for you anyway, as your LLC is operating under his license. If you want to stay around Seattle, better to be part of something there. You could dissolve your interest in the LLC & apprentice under new co. until you get licensed. In fact, you are better off learning under them, running some small jobs for them in time to get the experience while they pay you. Working on your own, the buck stops with you. Learn all you can under them, learn to think like an owner, not an employee. Even a good employee usually thinks differently than an owner. Thinking that way will teach you to keep waste down, look for most efficient ways of working, problem solving, dispute resolution, etc. The more of that you learn on someone else's dime, the better off you are when you go on your own later. If business is good there, you will find other opportunities later to do your thing. You will see a few people along the way you'd like to have with you & may be able to attract some of them.

 

[Strife]

First there's the issue of competition, but for me that's not the biggest problem.
When I hire someone full time, I expect a two way street. Meaning I give them 40 hrs and in return THEY give me 40 hrs. I've seen people half the day on the phone from personal matters, to resolving their own business issue. I had people that were working part time as security guards and came to work half asleep. They all claimed it doesn't affect their productivity. It does.
I'm not saying you'll do that, but they're red flags. No one has a crystal ball when hiring, so everyone tries to avoid the red flags as much as possible. So given the choice I would go for the equally qualified without red flags than the same qualifications with red flags.
I worked for a company where they tried as much as possible not to hire workers with child support. I thought was a bit silly, till later I had a guy with child support. Having to play enforcer for the support and mail the checks every week was bad enough. What was even worse was when he left. For about a year I kept getting letters to send money. I kept sending back the same reply that the employee is no longer with me. Didn't matter, there was no working phone number to talk with someone, only an address. So they played stupid as if they never got the replies. I finally sent them a certified mail and finally they stopped.
Does it mean that same nightmare happens with every employee who's due child support? Of course not. But it's a red flag.

I'd appreciate any insight on this situation. This is as short as I can make it:

I am a residential trainee in Washington state. Green, but with a solid background in general construction. My long-time friend, who is a licensed journeyman, and I decided to go into business together. He is from NY, I am from Washington, and the business operates in Washington. We formed an LLC, of which I am a partner. My friend was looking to relocate to Seattle for a few years and take advantage of the better market. I was in the business to work toward my license, and learn the trade.

Now, its looking like my friend wants to be primarily based in NY. In turn, I am looking for a more normal/stable work situation. So I contacted a company. Based on my resume, they were eager to have me come down and try out for a few days. But, I got a call back later saying that had found out that I was a partner/co-owner of a contracting company, and rescinded the offer. The only way he would hire me is if I closed the LLC. Not a decision to be made lightly.

The explanation the potential employer offered was that I have a conflict of interest. The notion caught me off-guard, but after some thought, I saw his point. He also told me that going forward, I would have the same problem when applying to other companies/contractors.

I'd like to get some perspectives on this, whether or not this guy is right. I'm 31- just finished my undergrad degree. After 500hrs of residential work, I've decided that this is the path I want to pursue. I'm really looking forward to getting things together in my working life and didn't expect this type of obstacle. I just want to work

 

[cdslotz]

How can you do electrical contracting without a Masters License?
Small detail...

 

[istac]

How can you do electrical contracting without a Masters License?
Small detail...

In WA State you need a journeyman license, not a masters, in order to be the "electrical administrator" of the company. This allows the company to do electrical contracting. In the LLC, I am the "registered agent," meaning that basically I am a resident of the state, and have a pulse. My partner is a journeyman.

 

[charlie b]

In WA State you need a journeyman license, not a masters, in order to be the "electrical administrator" of the company. This allows the company to do electrical contracting.

That is not true. In order to be the “Electrical Administrator” for an electrical contracting company, you must be licensed as an “Electrical Administrator.” I have that license, in addition to my Professional Engineer license. I do not have a license as an electrician, so I cannot do any electrical installation work, but I could (if I chose) serve as the Electrical Administrator for an EC company. The only two things that are needed, in order to get the Electrical Administrator license, is to pass the test and to pay the fee. In Washington State, the “Master” license is a combination of the Journeyman License and the Electrical Administrator license.

So if I may ask, does your LLC have an Electrical Administrator designated by an action by the board of trustees, or by an official, documented decision by the partnership? If not, even if you have a Journeyman on the payroll, you cannot do business in Washington State as an electrical contractor. (For the record, I don't want the job, and therefore that is not why I bring this up.)

In the LLC, I am the "registered agent," meaning that basically I am a resident of the state, and have a pulse.

And that is related to the incorporation process, not the fact that the company is an electrical contracting company.

 

[istac]

That is not true. In order to be the ?Electrical Administrator? for an electrical contracting company, you must be licensed as an ?Electrical Administrator.? I have that license, in addition to my Professional Engineer license. I do not have a license as an electrician, so I cannot do any electrical installation work, but I could (if I chose) serve as the Electrical Administrator for an EC company. The only two things that are needed, in order to get the Electrical Administrator license, is to pass the test and to pay the fee. In Washington State, the ?Master? license is a combination of the Journeyman License and the Electrical Administrator license.

So if I may ask, does your LLC have an Electrical Administrator designated by an action by the board of trustees, or by an official, documented decision by the partnership? If not, even if you have a Journeyman on the payroll, you cannot do business in Washington State as an electrical contractor. (For the record, I don't want the job, and therefore that is not why I bring this up.)
And that is related to the incorporation process, not the fact that the company is an electrical contracting company.

Sorry for the misinformation. Cognition error. My partner has taken passed the admin exam, and is designated by the LLC as administrator. The corporation is licensed as an electrical contracting company, having fulfilled this requirement. It's all legit...

 

[growler]

The explanation the potential employer offered was that I have a conflict of interest. The notion caught me off-guard, but after some thought, I saw his point. He also told me that going forward, I would have the same problem when applying to other companies/contractors.

If you are in direct competition with the company that you would be working for I can see their point.

I have worked for companies doing commercial and industrial that didn't care how many of their employees were doing residential on the side.

If you working for a service company then even a list of their customers would be an important thing for someone in competition to have. In new construction pricing can be important.

When you talk of residential are you talking about new construction or service type work?

 

[Little Bill]

The only ship that won't sail is a partnerSHIP!

 

[istac]

If you are in direct competition with the company that you would be working for I can see their point.

If you working for a service company then even a list of their customers would be an important thing for someone in competition to have. In new construction pricing can be important.

I appreciate the input, and I'm finding that this is consistent with the other responses here, and with the opinions of contractors I know.

I guess those two things are what he, and other prospective employers would be worried about then. I'm thinking my course of action is to get out of the LLC, and proceed with a job search when I'm officially/legally cleared of any ties. Until then, I have to start answering calls from realtors and go back to doing handyman/carpentry stuff on rentals and homes for sale. Not super psyched about delaying my next step. Oh well. What's life without a few setbacks.

When you talk of residential are you talking about new construction or service type work?

Our company has been doing rewires, additions and remodels. It's only been operational for about six months. A few service calls too: "my bedroom light doesn't work..." type stuff. Jobs have been in the $7-12K range.

 

[cdslotz]

Do you have to be a Master to pull a permit?

 

[readydave8]

If there is a legal way to do it in Washington I would look at subbing jobs from other ec's.

 

[jmellc]

First there's the issue of competition, but for me that's not the biggest problem.
When I hire someone full time, I expect a two way street. Meaning I give them 40 hrs and in return THEY give me 40 hrs. I've seen people half the day on the phone from personal matters, to resolving their own business issue. I had people that were working part time as security guards and came to work half asleep. They all claimed it doesn't affect their productivity. It does.
I'm not saying you'll do that, but they're red flags. No one has a crystal ball when hiring, so everyone tries to avoid the red flags as much as possible. So given the choice I would go for the equally qualified without red flags than the same qualifications with red flags.
I worked for a company where they tried as much as possible not to hire workers with child support. I thought was a bit silly, till later I had a guy with child support. Having to play enforcer for the support and mail the checks every week was bad enough. What was even worse was when he left. For about a year I kept getting letters to send money. I kept sending back the same reply that the employee is no longer with me. Didn't matter, there was no working phone number to talk with someone, only an address. So they played stupid as if they never got the replies. I finally sent them a certified mail and finally they stopped.
Does it mean that same nightmare happens with every employee who's due child support? Of course not. But it's a red flag.

I was treasurer for a non profit some years back & had to garnish a check for child support. This particular person understood & didn't fight about it. In his case, he was just a poor money manager & didn't put the support 1st. Later, I worked with a handful of guys behind on child support. A few truly didn't have the $, had been out of work, etc. But most really didn't want to pay it & kept making excuses. Some of them were heavy drinkers too, adding another red flag.

I worked for 1 co. where about 40% of guys on the job had lost licenses for DUI. Most rode with a coworker. 1 guy had 4 that rode in with him. If he called in sick, foreman nearly had a heart attack. That meant 4 others would be out too.

My 1st year of business was very slow & I nearly collapsed before getting started good. A friend called me to work with him when he needed an extra hand or to cover when someone was out. He kept me alive & I appreciated it. I turned my phone to vibe & during work, I only answered if it was him or someone else in his loop. I checked my other messages & returned calls at lunch time, break time or after work. I appreciated what he did for me & didn't want to mess it up. He gave me a lot of work for a time. To this day, I keep 1 eye on him to see if he ever needs a favor that I could help with. Guys like this only come along every now & then.