Motor FLA different than Motor FLA on Nameplate

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juan7010

Member
Location
Minooka
Hi all,

Motor specs:

FLA: 116 Amperes
Voltage: 460 Volts
Horse Power: 100HP

Start-up:

The motor has a two stage start-up. The first transient is about 500 Amperes. The second and highest transient is 1300 Amperes.

Measured FLA: 70 Amperes ;This was measured after 15 seconds of operation.


I beleive start time was about 13 seconds until it reached the steady state.

Question:

Why does the FLA on the motor differ from the FLA I measured with a Power Quality Recorder.?
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
The motor will only draw what it needs to provide the power demanded by the load. Assuming rated voltage and freqency are applied it is going to try to maintain rated speed. The more load that is connected to it the more current it will draw trying to maintain the speed. Try to drive more load than the motor is rated for and it will draw more than nameplate rating, and will suffer from excess heating because of it. Uncouple the load from the motor shaft and it will likely be well under the motor nameplate current, as it only needs what is required to keep its own rotor turning.

(more less a simple version of what is going on)
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
In this case the motor had a load.

what you need to understand is the load may not require all 100 horsepower the motor is capable of delivering.

If load only required 85 hp to do its work then that is all the motor will deliver to it, and therefore it will draw less than full load rating from the power supply also.

The same 85 hp load would be too much for a 75 hp motor so therefore a 100 hp motor is needed, if you want to stick with standarized sizes of motors. The 75 hp would likely drive the load but would suffer from excessive heating in doing so and this would eventually lead to failure of the motor.
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
Yes the voltage is 480 V. Yes, according to the electrician, once the motor/compressor starts producing air it is running at full load.
If this is an compressed air unit, its greatest load is when it achieves maximum rated pressure (not necessarily set pressure). Generally speaking, if this occurs 15 seconds into operation, you have an inefficient setup. A larger reservoir would be recommended.
 

juan7010

Member
Location
Minooka
If this is an compressed air unit, its greatest load is when it achieves maximum rated pressure (not necessarily set pressure). Generally speaking, if this occurs 15 seconds into operation, you have an inefficient setup. A larger reservoir would be recommended.

Thank you all for your time. I find this site very useful I look forward to contributing what I know in the future.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
If this is an compressed air unit, its greatest load is when it achieves maximum rated pressure (not necessarily set pressure). Generally speaking, if this occurs 15 seconds into operation, you have an inefficient setup. A larger reservoir would be recommended.

I'm guessing what he is saying is that it takes 15 seconds to accelerate the load to achieve normal running current. Sounds like probably part winding or wye-delta starting with the two stages and finally a more steady running current.

Start-up:

The motor has a two stage start-up. The first transient is about 500 Amperes. The second and highest transient is 1300 Amperes.

Measured FLA: 70 Amperes ;This was measured after 15 seconds of operation.


I beleive start time was about 13 seconds until it reached the steady state.
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
Thank you all for your time. I find this site very useful I look forward to contributing what I know in the future.

At risk of repeating the other excellent answers, I see the basic problem here as your misuse, or perhaps misunderstanding, of terms.

FLA = Full Load Amps. This is the amperes that the motor will draw when putting out FULL rated output, defined as rated torque at rated speed. HP is a shorthand way of describing a specific amount of torque at a specific speed. Motor HP is only a rating of what the motor is CAPABLE of.

When you are measuring current with whatever your load is, we refer to that as RLA, or Running Load Amps. This is the steady state amperes drawn by the motor to do the work of the load that it is attached to.

The amount of work the motor is called upon to perform is dictated by the attached load, not what the motor is capable of, but limited by the motor's rated capability. So a machine designer determines the maximum peak load, the speed the motor must spin, the torque it must put out, and that determines the shaft HP he needs from the motor. Then he selects a standard motor HP rating that is GREATER than the required shaft HP. That does not mean the motor WILL put out that much HP all of the time, but if called upon, it can. When you measure the RLA, you are looking at the current that the motor needs just to do that job.

Peaks are a fact of life, they are an inherent consideration in motor design and ratings etc. When you measure high peaks like the ones you mention, those are transients and not of immediate concern, as long as they happen in the right set of circumstances and in the right order. Most likely I would say that the 1300A reading you witnessed was an INITIAL inrush current, defined as what happens when you first energize the motor windings. For a fraction of a second, the motor windings are essentially a short circuit until the magnetic fields are established. 10 - 13 times rated FLC is not uncommon, and in fact new energy efficient motors are often 17-20X. This is why you use "slow-blow" fuses on motor circuits. The 500A reading would be indicative of Starting Current or Locked Rotor Current (LRC), the high current that takes place as the motor accelerates from a dead stop, and this can take several seconds. Totally normal, and in fact you can sometimes see LRC during operation if there is a high shock load. In the case of a compressor, this can sometimes happen when an "unload valve" closes. Compressors generally start unloaded, meaning the compression chamber is vented to air, because otherwise the motor may not start. Then several seconds later, the valve closes and there is a sudden pressure increase on the compressor, which may make the motor draw LRC again for an instant. Perfectly normal. But because at that point the motor windings are ALREADY magnetized, you should never see the full inrush current level, like your 1300A reading.

If you are absolutely sure that you saw 1300A AFTER the 500A surge, then that would be indicative of a short circuit situation and cause for serious concern.
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
I'm guessing what he is saying is that it takes 15 seconds to accelerate the load to achieve normal running current. Sounds like probably part winding or wye-delta starting with the two stages and finally a more steady running current.
I perceived it as such. I was just elaborating that an air compressor's load increases as it builds pressure...
 

GeorgeB

ElectroHydraulics engineer (retired)
Location
Greenville SC
Occupation
Retired
FLA: 116 Amperes

Measured FLA: 70 Amperes

As several others have said, running current is only full load current if the load on the motor is the same as the motor ratings, in this case 100 HP (75kW).

I took the liberty of selecting an arbitrary Baldor motor very similar to what you have, their CEM2555T. With that motor, 70A is half load. I doubt you are far from that. I'm attaching a jpg I created of the CEM2555T.jpg web data.
 
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