Stranded wire on receptacles

[iwire]

(It does look like an IG receptacle, so it shouldn't be touching the mounting strap)

Its not, there is an insulator between the brass and the strap.

 

[hillbilly1]

Never saw a clamp/backwire on a EGC terminal for an IG: have you?

Have not had to install an IG in a long time, don't even have one the truck, so I can't say for sure.

Its not, there is an insulator between the brass and the strap.

Maybe so, the bump at the bottom makes it kinda look like a clamp.

 

[iwire]

 

[infinity]

Yes the IG terminal had no clamping device to hold the strands together, just the screw. The device also had black tape around it which ensured that the loose strands were nicely contacting the yoke which killed the IG. There were actually a few devices with the same problem.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Not I but I thought someone did recently either here or at ET.

I think there was at least one, but I have an issue with that. The listing standard clearly requires that these devices have terminations that are suitable for use with both solid and stranded conductors, so how can a product that does not comply with the listing standard be a listed product?

 

[steve66]

Good call.

"310.3 Stranded Conductors

Where installed in raceways, conductors of size 8 AWG and larger shall be stranded."

The program actually has a second default paragraph that says "8 AWG And larger shall be stranded (except where article 250 requires solid)".

I usually include that paragarph, but it's probably a waste of ink. I don't think any reasonable contractor would try to install #8 solid wire in a conduit. But I guess we've all seen stranger things.

 

[hillbilly1]

The program actually has a second default paragraph that says "8 AWG And larger shall be stranded (except where article 250 requires solid)".

I usually include that paragarph, but it's probably a waste of ink. I don't think any reasonable contractor would try to install #8 solid wire in a conduit. But I guess we've all seen stranger things.

The place where I could see solid in that size or larger in conduit is the grounding electrode conductor, usually it's a straight run to the bar joists though. (which may be why your refering article 250)

 

[infinity]

The place where I could see solid in that size or larger in conduit is the grounding electrode conductor, usually it's a straight run to the bar joists though. (which may be why your refering article 250)

That's permitted?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I think there was at least one, but I have an issue with that. The listing standard clearly requires that these devices have terminations that are suitable for use with both solid and stranded conductors, so how can a product that does not comply with the listing standard be a listed product?

I don't know but if the product is listed and it states no stranded wire then I would be you would have a hard time getting that by inspections. We have a guy from UL coming to our contractors meeting next month and I hope to ask many of these type questions. :thumbsup:

 

[K8MHZ]

That's permitted?

Telco's do it all the time as an EGC. 2AWG solid bare tinned copper in PVC bonding all the cabinets on the site together.

NO FUN!!!!! Even in 2". Been there, etc.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Telco's do it all the time as an EGC. 2AWG solid bare tinned copper in PVC bonding all the cabinets on the site together.

NO FUN!!!!! Even in 2". Been there, etc.

And how do they get by 310.3-- 2008, or 310.106(C) in the 2011-- I guess they don't have to follow the nec???

310.3 Stranded Conductors.
Where installed in raceways, conductors of size 8 AWG and larger shall be stranded.
Exception: As permitted or required elsewhere in this Code.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I don't know but if the product is listed and it states no stranded wire then I would be you would have a hard time getting that by inspections. We have a guy from UL coming to our contractors meeting next month and I hope to ask many of these type questions. :thumbsup:

The answer I got from UL is that this is another case where 110.3(B) does not apply...the same answer they use to justify "classified" breakers.

 

[K8MHZ]

And how do they get by 310.3-- 2008, or 310.106(C) in the 2011-- I guess they don't have to follow the nec???

Correct. Check 90.1 (B) (4).

 

[infinity]

And how do they get by 310.3-- 2008, or 310.106(C) in the 2011-- I guess they don't have to follow the nec???

It seems that way otherwise it's a clear violation.

 

[tom baker]

For 14 and 12 stranded wire on devices, I use non insulated fork connectors, and carry a small plastic box in my tool bag. PVC insulated connectors are not so great, the best insulated is nylon, and a controlled cycle compression tool. But the typical T&B WT-111 has the indent for the non insulated terminals and really crimps them well.

 

[Little Bill]

Twist the strands CCW and they will not splay out, but cinch tight.

About 90% of the machine wiring I used to do had stranded wire and I used the CCW method, it works great. To add to that, sometimes it helps to leave the wire long wrap it around the screw, tighten it, then cut off the excess.

 

[jumper]

About 90% of the machine wiring I used to do had stranded wire and I used the CCW method, it works great. To add to that, sometimes it helps to leave the wire long wrap it around the screw, tighten it, then cut off the excess.

Yep.:thumbsup:

 

[K8MHZ]

For 14 and 12 stranded wire on devices, I use non insulated fork connectors, and carry a small plastic box in my tool bag. PVC insulated connectors are not so great, the best insulated is nylon, and a controlled cycle compression tool. But the typical T&B WT-111 has the indent for the non insulated terminals and really crimps them well.

If you get the right connectors and use the right crimp tool, the copper from the wire and what ever the terminals are made of actually get cold welded together. I don't know who makes the stuff, I learned about it working in a power plant, but the tool is more than 150 dollars and the connectors were a couple bucks each.