Number of Receptacles on a circuit?

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DPM

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I could have sworn there used to be a limit of 9 receptacles on a 15 A, 120V circuit, and a limit of 13 on a 20 A, 120V AC circuit. But, I can't find it anywhere in the 2011 code.
Any help out there for the NEC's limit on this question?
 
roger

roger

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DPM said:
Yes, it is for a dwelling. Thanks for the welcome.
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For residential there is no limit per the NEC, you can put as many as you want on a circuit.

Roger
 
infinity

infinity

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iwire said:
Some say there is no limit in non-dwellings either but I can't by into that argument.
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Mike Holt agrees with you:

503ecm31fig1.jpg


http://ecmweb.com/nec/code_qa/electric_stumped_code_19/
 
kwired

kwired

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A little common sense should be used above and beyond code minimums. If you know there will be regular use of a 10 amp appliance you may want to take that into consideration in any occupancy no matter how many other outlets may be in the same area and/or are otherwise allowed on same circuit.
 
charlie b

charlie b

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iwire said:
Some say there is no limit in non-dwellings either but I can't by into that argument.
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I am one of those "some." My basis is that there is nothing that ties 210 and 220 together. By any chance, did anyone put in a proposal for the 2014 to correct this oversight?
 
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Hv&Lv

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charlie b said:
I am one of those "some." My basis is that there is nothing that ties 210 and 220 together. By any chance, did anyone put in a proposal for the 2014 to correct this oversight?
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I can't seem to see this as you do. In reading 220.14(I), I would need to calculate my branch circuit in a commercial building as stated. For banks or office buildings, I have to chose the larger of (K) (1) or(2). so if I am installing outlets in a warehouse, I cannot install more than 13 outlets per 20 amp circuit the way I read this section. ( I realize 13 can be way to many in the real world, but for the sake of discussion I will use the max.)

In a bank or office building, if I have 2401 sq ft, I have to install two circuits versus installing 14 receptacles(or 13 doubles and one single) from 220.14(K)(2). From there I have to go to 210.11(B) for distribution.

The way I am reading this, there is a definite limit on the receptacles allowed on a branch circuit in a commercial building. I am open to any convincing arguments against the limits though...
 
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Hv&Lv

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charlie b said:
You have to? You HAVE to??? Where exactly within 220 does it say you have to go to 210? :happyno:
Try this one: The NEC is not a design manual. :happyno:
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I agree, the NEC is "not intended as a design specification or an instruction manual for untrained persons." It is however, a manual that "Compliance therewith and proper maintenance results in an installation that is essentially free from hazard but not necessarily efficient, convenient, or adequate for good service or future expansion of electrical use." In other words, I believe it is the minimum allowed if enacted. "The NEC is not a ceiling to reach for, but rather a floor to work up from." (I wish I could remember where I first heard that...):D

90.3 is an excellent place to start. "Chapters 1, 2, 3, and 4 apply generally;" from there we can move to 90.5(A)(Shall).

Now on to my statement:
In a bank or office building, if I have 2401 sq ft, I have to install two circuits versus installing 14 receptacles(or 13 doubles and one single) from 220.14(K)(2). From there I have to go to 210.11(B) for distribution
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.

Because I have calculated this load based on sq.ft., I am not refered back to 210.11, but I must remember to apply 210.11.

210.11(B) states in part, "This load shall be evenly proportioned among multioutlet branch circuits within the panelboard(s). 90.3 states the chapters apply generally, I take that to mean that I must use any parts in chapters 1,2,3,& 4 that pertain to my specific installation.

220 does make a couple of references to 210.11. 220.14(I) & 220.14(J)(1).

Should the NEC always refer the reader back to specific articles? Or should the person utilizing the NEC be expected to be familiar with the book before use.
I see this like any good book, if you are going to follow the story line, it is important to know the first few chapters. ;)
 
S

Strife

Senior Member
Why?
I'm installing 5-6 receptacles in a bedroom, even 7. I mean how many TV's will the owner place in a bedroom?
Would the vacuum qualify as the "regular use of a 10A"?
So I should have a dedicated outlet every 15-20 feet along the walls?
As far as commercial, I always thought was 180VA per yoke(I know someone put a picture already...)

kwired said:
A little common sense should be used above and beyond code minimums. If you know there will be regular use of a 10 amp appliance you may want to take that into consideration in any occupancy no matter how many other outlets may be in the same area and/or are otherwise allowed on same circuit.
Click to expand...
 
S

Strife

Senior Member
Hv&Lv said:
" It is however, a manual that "Compliance therewith and proper maintenance results in an installation that is essentially free from hazard
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And as long as the OCPD is sized properly for the wire size it will be safe.



Hv&Lv said:
but not necessarily efficient, convenient, or adequate for good service or future expansion of electrical use."
In other words, I believe it is the minimum allowed if enacted. "The NEC is not a ceiling to reach for, but rather a floor to work up from." (I wish I could remember where I first heard that...)

;)
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Convenient? Everyone has a different idea of convenient. Would banks of 20 switches suffice at EVERY door? I bet you'll find SOMEONE who'll say that's not enough.
Future expansion? So we should make sure every house has 400A because someone might want to grow marijuana? Don't laugh, I've seen a place where they upgraded the service to grow marijuana.
But that's rare, so where is enough for future expansion? 400A instead of a 150A service? 1000A? 2000A? Taking an arbitrary approach, I could see every house with 4000A service.
Got news for you, I have seen houses with 60A breakers and never blown the fuse for years, with AC added, WH and oven. The way I see it the code requires WAY above what's really happening out there. I did, not only one job, where our demand was more for one warehouse space than FPL had for 40 combined warehouses.
No, I'm not gonna ask to have NEC watered down, but saying NEC is just bare minimum, is a joke.
 
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Hv&Lv

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Strife said:
And as long as the OCPD is sized properly for the wire size it will be safe.
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I just qouted the book, I didn't write it.



Strife said:
Convenient? Everyone has a different idea of convenient. Would banks of 20 switches suffice at EVERY door? I bet you'll find SOMEONE who'll say that's not enough.
Future expansion? So we should make sure every house has 400A because someone might want to grow marijuana? Don't laugh, I've seen a place where they upgraded the service to grow marijuana.
But that's rare, so where is enough for future expansion? 400A instead of a 150A service? 1000A? 2000A? Taking an arbitrary approach, I could see every house with 4000A service.
Click to expand...
Again, I just quoted the book, I didn't write it.:cool:

Strife said:
Got news for you, I have seen houses with 60A breakers and never blown the fuse for years, with AC added, WH and oven. The way I see it the code requires WAY above what's really happening out there. I did, not only one job, where our demand was more for one warehouse space than FPL had for 40 combined warehouses.
No, I'm not gonna ask to have NEC watered down, but saying NEC is just bare minimum, is a joke.
Click to expand...
Heres some news for you, If the NEC is enacted, then by law it becomes the minimum allowed. :D
 
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