help with 70e question with PPE

[pistolpigg]

It seems that the overall goal of arc flash regulations is to discourage any energized work but in doing so has made troubleshooting of existing equipment frustrating and sometimes even impossible on things that have a higher than category 4 rating. In this case what can be done?

 

[iwire]

I wonder what is going to happen with this whole situation. It is just about impossible to fix in any way that is economical. And even if it was "fixable", the ongoing cost would be unsustainable. I think there are things that can be done to reduce the risks. I can't see us shutting down the economy, but that does appear to be the only way to meet the requirements of this law.

The sad part is that no one can even tell you if what is being done to comply is even going to work.

Redesigning equipment is not going to shut down the economy, lets not blow it out of proportion.

 

[iwire]

It seems to me that the one thing that the arc flash hazzrd analysis doesn't take in effect is the probability of an arc while performing certain tasks. For example would the wearing of arc flash double gloves and suit possibility of causing an accident compared to the possibility of a major arc covering performing a task like changing small ice cube relay. Seems like its akin to making everyone driving a car on the interstate on a dangerous patch of road wear a suit of some kind to minimize injury in case of an accident that may occur.

I think you are missing the big picture.

They do not want you to work live at all.

The only work allowed with PPE is troubleshooting or there rare times where a shutdown is really more hazardous than not. This does not mean 'when it costs more' or 'when it is hard to comply with'.

 

[weressl]

Redesigning equipment is not going to shut down the economy, lets not blow it out of proportion.

Really? Would you care to put some numbers behind that at 17% - real number, not politically fudged figures - unemployment rate and negative manufacturing growth?

 

[iwire]

Really? Would you care to put some numbers behind that at 17% - real number, not politically fudged figures - unemployment rate and negative manufacturing growth?

No I cannot.

But it is ridiculous thinking to say that designing equipment that can meet new requirements is going to 'shutdown the economy'

 

[weressl]

No I cannot.

But it is ridiculous thinking to say that designing equipment that can meet new requirements is going to 'shutdown the economy'

It is not just designing new equipment but maintraining the existing ones. The shutting down the hospital is just one example. Do you really think that the struggling economy and businisses that are trying to stay in the US can sustain and absorb that economic pressure?

 

[pistolpigg]

I think you are missing the big picture.

They do not want you to work live at all.

The only work allowed with PPE is troubleshooting or there rare times where a shutdown is really more hazardous than not. This does not mean 'when it costs more' or 'when it is hard to comply with'.

the thing I am addressing is the interaction with devices such as a disconnect that is higher than category 3 on a service call in theory there is no legal way to operate these services without calling the power company and shutting down the whole system then no real legal way to verify its dead. This is the situation that I am addressing

 

[pfalcon]

the thing I am addressing is the interaction with devices such as a disconnect that is higher than category 3 on a service call in theory there is no legal way to operate these services without calling the power company and shutting down the whole system then no real legal way to verify its dead. This is the situation that I am addressing

Actually, every machine we have has two disconnects installed. One 15'-35' in the air on the buss head, and a second on the machine. They turn off the buss when they install new disconnects on the buss head. If we actually have to service the machine disconnect itself we hot stick the buss disconnect.

It's not all in purchasing new equipment to meet requirements. It's also about planning service.

 

[fxh]

ednj, I think what your asking for is that you need to get a current copy of 70E. In it there is a chart(table), I think it is 130.something. It can give you a feel for what PPE is to be worn for what type of task is being preformed. Make no mistake, it best to work the equipment dead. I work in a power plant and we cannot always shut things off just because, however we make every effort to do so first. I know where your coming from, I dont always want to put the suit on unless there is no other way. Sometimes just putting on the head sock, flash shield, etc is a task when it's 98 degrees out with 98% humidity, and 120 in the plant,but I like my face the way it is.

As far as the level "2" goes they are refering to the level of PPE (flame retardent paints, shirts, etc) and not gloves. I hope that when you are saying double gloves you mean rubber with leather protectors. There are times when, and they are not often, that I need to remove my leathers to do a task. Remember leathers are a protector for the rubbers, not the insluator.

If the company you are doing this work for has done an arc flash study then you must follow the lables. I would put this on your boss to put it on the hospital of what rules they what you to follow, not the rep from the compressor company. He has brought up a good point to you but in all reality has no real say in what to follow.

Sorry about the spelling, hope this helps.