Is a Metal Halide bulb called a Halogen bulb in France?

[Eddy Current]

Is a Metal Halide bulb called a Halogen bulb in France?

 

[kwired]

Is a Metal Halide bulb called a Halogen bulb in France?

I have no idea about France, but the names come from the methods used to create the light source so I don't know why they would call it that other than misunderstandings from the general public. Even people in the US call anything that is not standard incandescant a halogen because they do not know any better.

 

[Crystal Skull]

Technically speaking Metal halide bulbs are different they have a mixture of gases in its lamp while halogen has only halogen gas. The life of both the lamps is different so they can't be called as same. But i am sorry i don't know about nomenclature they use in France but technically they are not same.

ECT

 

[kwired]

Technically speaking Metal halide bulbs are different they have a mixture of gases in its lamp while halogen has only halogen gas. The life of both the lamps is different so they can't be called as same. But i am sorry i don't know about nomenclature they use in France but technically they are not same.

ECT

The halogen also has a filament surrounded by the halogen gas, it is primarily a shield for the filament but has performance advantages over other shield gases used in other filament type lamps. Metal halide as well as other HID sources have no filament, an arc through the gases within the lamp produce the light.

 

[weressl]

Is a Metal Halide bulb called a Halogen bulb in France?

Only as the result of bad translation where the halogen and halides are used interchangeably. While halogen is involved in both types, the function and purpose is fundamentally different.

Halogen lamps are filament lamps that are filled with pure halogen gas allowing the filaments to 'burn' at a higher temperature, therefore more lumens/watt can be produced at a still reasonable life. Thus Congress not banned them in their green-gas reducing frenzy. Metal halide lamps are high intensity discharge lamps utilizing vaporized metal halides as the ionized conductive path for the arc.

 

[LEO2854]

Only as the result of bad translation where the halogen and halides are used interchangeably. While halogen is involved in both types, the function and purpose is fundamentally different.

Halogen lamps are filament lamps that are filled with pure halogen gas allowing the filaments to 'burn' at a higher temperature, therefore more lumens/watt can be produced at a still reasonable life. Thus Congress not banned them in their green-gas reducing frenzy. Metal halide lamps are high intensity discharge lamps utilizing vaporized metal halides as the ionized conductive path for the arc.

They did ban mercury vapor lamps which are not that much different than metal halide lamps that also have mercury..:roll:


That is pretty interesting how the french would call them halogen lamps.

 

[K8MHZ]

Only as the result of bad translation where the halogen and halides are used interchangeably. While halogen is involved in both types, the function and purpose is fundamentally different.

Halogen lamps are filament lamps that are filled with pure halogen gas allowing the filaments to 'burn' at a higher temperature, therefore more lumens/watt can be produced at a still reasonable life. Thus Congress not banned them in their green-gas reducing frenzy. Metal halide lamps are high intensity discharge lamps utilizing vaporized metal halides as the ionized conductive path for the arc.

OK....a little light bulb chemistry lesson here.

A halogen is the name of a small group of elements. Chlorine, bromine, iodine and a couple of others. A halide is the combination of hydrogen with a halogen, such as HBr.

A halogen lamp is filled with an inert gas like argon with a little bit of iodine or bromine added. I don't think any lamp would work if filled only with a halogen. Sometimes xenon is used in place of argon. Technically, xenon can be used with or without halogens, but I am pretty sure that, since they are so bright, the ones on the market do employ the use of a halogen.

A metal halide lamp is just a mercury vapor lamp with small amounts of sodium or rare earth elements added in the form of metal halides. A metal halide is just a halide with the hydrogen replaced by a metal. The halides in HID bulbs are usually rare earth metal halides, although sodium is sometimes used. A rare earth metal halide would be one atom of a rare earth metal paired with a halogen. Scandium iodide, for instance. The addition of the rare earth halides make for a higher output and can be used to control the temperature color.

Sodium chloride (salt) is a metal halide. Rock salt is called halite.

 

[Sierrasparky]

OK....a little light bulb chemistry lesson here.

A halogen is the name of a small group of elements. Chlorine, bromine, iodine and a couple of others. A halide is the combination of hydrogen with a halogen, such as HBr.

A halogen lamp is filled with an inert gas with a little bit of iodine or bromine added. I don't think any lamp would work if filled only with a halogen.

A metal halide lamp is just a mercury vapor lamp with small amounts of sodium or rare earth elements added in the form of metal halides. A metal halide is just a halide with the hydrogen replaced by a metal. The halides in HID bulbs are usually rare earth metal halides, although sodium is sometimes used. A rare earth metal halide would be one atom of a rare earth metal paired with a halogen. Scandium iodide, for instance. The addition of the rare earth halides make for a higher output and can be used to control the temperature color.

Looks like somebody was awake and listining during chemistry.

 

[K8MHZ]

Looks like somebody was awake and listining during chemistry.

Chemistry and physics were my favorite subjects, while auto shop was my favorite class.

And, speaking of physics, it should also be noted that the gas in a halogen and the gas in a halide serve totally different functions.

In a halogen, the gas is there to be non-conductive so the current can flow through the tungsten filament and to be non-reactive so the filament can operate at a high temp and stay intact. The same goes for a regular incandescent bulb. Think 'insulator'.

In a halide, the gas forms from the heating of mercury and is meant to be just the opposite, conductive. The vaporized metal takes the place of the tungsten. Think 'conductor'.

During class hours I was a nerd and couldn't get enough of chemistry and physics and technology in general. After school, however, I was a biker type. So in my garage you will find a custom Harley and in my house you will find tons of radios and test equipment. In fact, I have a pretty good ham radio station in my kitchen.

 

[weressl]

Chemistry and physics were my favorite subjects, while auto shop was my favorite class.

And, speaking of physics, it should also be noted that the gas in a halogen and the gas in a halide serve totally different functions.

In a halogen, the gas is there to be non-conductive so the current can flow through the tungsten filament and to be non-reactive so the filament can operate at a high temp and stay intact. The same goes for a regular incandescent bulb. Think 'insulator'.

In a halide, the gas forms from the heating of mercury and is meant to be just the opposite, conductive. The vaporized metal takes the place of the tungsten. Think 'conductor'.

During class hours I was a nerd and couldn't get enough of chemistry and physics and technology in general. After school, however, I was a biker type. So in my garage you will find a custom Harley and in my house you will find tons of radios and test equipment. In fact, I have a pretty good ham radio station in my kitchen.

Thanks for the chemistry lesson: I needed that!:happyyes:

I would take issue though with the above description of the halogen as the gas' function to be an insulator. Incandescent bulbs are ordinarily evacuated to a certain vacuum level, certainly far from absolute vacuum. The function of that is to remove the oxygen that is contained in the air that causes the hot metal filament to oxidize and eventually break. In the halogen lamps the non-reactive gas fill serves to prevent oxidation and it does so more effectively than the evacuation process, thus the filaments are allowed to operate at an even higher temperature and as the result producing both more light and better color 'temperature' than their incandescent counterparts.

 

[zbang]

FWIW, I was taught many years ago that the proper name for the lamp (not bulb, that's just the outer envelope) type is tungsten-halogen since those are the necessary pieces for the halogen cycle to operate. After that, there are all the HID types (High Intensity Discharge), which could be high or low pressure sodium, mixed metals w/ halides, xenon, etc.

 

[K8MHZ]

Thanks for the chemistry lesson: I needed that!:happyyes:

I would take issue though with the above description of the halogen as the gas' function to be an insulator. Incandescent bulbs are ordinarily evacuated to a certain vacuum level, certainly far from absolute vacuum. The function of that is to remove the oxygen that is contained in the air that causes the hot metal filament to oxidize and eventually break. In the halogen lamps the non-reactive gas fill serves to prevent oxidation and it does so more effectively than the evacuation process, thus the filaments are allowed to operate at an even higher temperature and as the result producing both more light and better color 'temperature' than their incandescent counterparts.

I just used that to kind of mentally illustrate the differences. Actually, the halogens serve to re-deposit tungsten to the element. Different metals will have different colors.

 

[K8MHZ]

FWIW, I was taught many years ago that the proper name for the lamp (not bulb, that's just the outer envelope) type is tungsten-halogen since those are the necessary pieces for the halogen cycle to operate. After that, there are all the HID types (High Intensity Discharge), which could be high or low pressure sodium, mixed metals w/ halides, xenon, etc.

You are correct. Technically, to be an HID it has to have an arc. Xenon is used in both HID lamps and tungsten filament lamps. The layperson doesn't realize that just because a lamp has xenon in it (in place of argon) doesn't qualify it as an HID lamp. You will see xenon lamps for sale at the auto stores. They have a filament. It's pretty hard to make a decent arc at 12 volts.

Years ago I worked on big theatrical set ups. They had carbon arc lamps that had to continually be adjusted. They made a bunch of light, but also were so hot they were dangerous. I don't know when they quit using them, but I was working with them in the late 70's - early 80's.

 

[zbang]

Years ago I worked on big theatrical set ups. They had carbon arc lamps that had to continually be adjusted. They made a bunch of light, but also were so hot they were dangerous. I don't know when they quit using them, but I was working with them in the late 70's - early 80's.

I ran carbon arc 35mm machines into the early 1990's. A friend mentioned that the Byrd Theater in Richmond VA only converted to xenon lamps in the last couple of years, and only because the only carbons they could get were, ahem, crap. Lovely things, they were.