Gas Pipe Bonding

[don_resqcapt19]

I can see how the code working can be read as requiring the connection to not be at a sub panel.

(B) Other Metal Piping. Where installed in or attached to a building or structure, a metal piping system(s), including gas piping, that is likely to become energized shall be bonded to the service equipment enclosure, the grounded conductor at the service, the grounding electrode conductor where of sufficient size, or the one or more grounding electrodes used. The bonding jumper(s) shall be sized in accordance with 250.122, using the rating of the circuit that is likely to energize the piping system(s). The equipment grounding conductor for the circuit that is likely to energize the piping shall be permitted to serve as the bonding means. The points of attachment of the bonding jumper(s) shall be accessible.

The equipment grounding conductor statement muddies the waters somewhat.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I can see how the code working can be read as requiring the connection to not be at a sub panel.

The equipment grounding conductor statement muddies the waters somewhat.

That was my thinking but I really don't think the first part is saying it must be at the service. It is interesting because everything else is bonded back at the service but for some reason the egc can bond the gas pipe.

 

[jumper]

That was my thinking but I really don't think the first part is saying it must be at the service. It is interesting because everything else is bonded back at the service but for some reason the egc can bond the gas pipe.

How about the idea that it is a 250.122 install and not 250.66?

 

[HoosierSparky]

How many homes, with gas, have you wired and bonded the gas piping at the gas meter and to the Main Service Panel? I have seen it either with a separate bond from the gas piping to the Main Panel or continuous with the water, gas and UFER/ ground rods, all bonded in one run to the panel.

IF the code is "muddied" isn't it "BEST PRACTICE" to do the safest and most restrictive? Will using the EGC run with the feeds from a panel to the gas appliance meet the code for bonding? Yes, for that appliance only, not for the entire gas piping system. I believe THAT is what is inferred with in 250.104 it states "gas piping". It doesn't state gas piping to an appliance.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

How about the idea that it is a 250.122 install and not 250.66?

That just states it can be size to the branch circuit OCPD that does not, imo, give permission to be from the sub. I still think the wording in the beginning does not state it must come from the service.

 

[jumper]

I have seen it either with a separate bond from the gas piping to the Main Panel or continuous with the water, gas and UFER/ ground rods, all bonded in one run to the panel.

That would make the gas line an electrode. That ain't legal.

250.52(B) Not Permitted for Use as Grounding Electrodes.
The following systems and materials shall not be used as
grounding electrodes:
(1) Metal underground gas piping systems

 

[don_resqcapt19]

That would make the gas line an electrode. That ain't legal. ...

Any connection to the metal interior gas piping from the electrical grounding system would make the outside underground metal gas piping an grounding electrode if the gas utilities did not use a dielectric connecton to isolate the interior metal gas piping from the underground metal gas piping.

 

[jumper]

Any connection to the metal interior gas piping from the electrical grounding system would make the outside underground metal gas piping an grounding electrode if the gas utilities did not use a dielectric connecton to isolate the interior metal gas piping from the underground metal gas piping.

True, but we do not purposely try and make it one by using the GEC as a bond connection.

 

[HoosierSparky]

Any connection to the metal interior gas piping from the electrical grounding system would make the outside underground metal gas piping an grounding electrode if the gas utilities did not use a dielectric connecton to isolate the interior metal gas piping from the underground metal gas piping.

The gas utility company, here, uses plastic lines. Most gas mains here have been or are in the process of being re-lined w/ plastic. The old lines are rusting out and leaking.

 

[jumper]

True, but we do not purposely try and make it one by using the GEC as a bond connection.

Oops. Reread section. I am wrong.:ashamed1:

 

[HoosierSparky]

I FOUND IT! Per the 2006 International Residential Code (the governing code in this jurisdiction), under E3509.7:

E3509.7 Bonding other metal piping.
Where installed in or attached to a building or structure, metal piping systems, including gas piping, capable of becoming energized shall be bonded to the service equipment enclosure, the grounded conductor at the service, the grounding electrode conductor where of sufficient size, or to the one or more grounding electrodes used. The bonding jumper shall be sized in accordance with Table E3808.12 using the rating of the circuit capable of energizing the piping. The equipment grounding conductor for the circuit that is capable of energizing the piping shall be permitted to serve as the bonding means. The points of attachment of the bonding jumper(s) shall be accessible.

​

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I FOUND IT! Per the 2006 International Residential Code (the governing code in this jurisdiction), under E3509.7:

E3509.7 Bonding other metal piping.
Where installed in or attached to a building or structure, metal piping systems, including gas piping, capable of becoming energized shall be bonded to the service equipment enclosure, the grounded conductor at the service, the grounding electrode conductor where of sufficient size, or to the one or more grounding electrodes used. The bonding jumper shall be sized in accordance with Table E3808.12 using the rating of the circuit capable of energizing the piping. The equipment grounding conductor for the circuit that is capable of energizing the piping shall be permitted to serve as the bonding means. The points of attachment of the bonding jumper(s) shall be accessible.

​

How is that any different than what I posted in post #13 of this thread. It still does not mean the egc must originate at the service equipment.

 

[HoosierSparky]

I FOUND IT! Per the 2006 International Residential Code (the governing code in this jurisdiction), under E3509.7:

1. shall be bonded to the service equipment enclosure, the grounded conductor at the service, the grounding electrode conductor where of sufficient size, or to the one or more grounding electrodes used.

2.The bonding jumper shall be sized in accordance with Table E3808.12 using the rating of the circuit capable of energizing the piping. The equipment grounding conductor for the circuit that is capable of energizing the piping shall be permitted to serve as the bonding means. The points of attachment of the bonding jumper(s) shall be accessible.

​

The first part states "shall be bonded to...." THis is a clear and consise statement. A service is the first panel after or including the meter. It also states bonding to the grounded conductor (Neutral) AT the service or where the EGC is of suffient size, also AT the service.

The next part allows bonding the gas piping at the equipment being served. This does not mean that just attaching the flex connector to the appliance and the EGC to the appliance is all that needs to take place. A BOND from the appliance to the gas pipe must also be attached and accessible. This can become troublesome and a huge pain when you have multiple appliances (Stove, oven, furnace, gas fireplace w/ ignighter, etc.). It would seem much easier to just bond the gas piping at the ELECTRICAL SERVICE PANEL. Gas meters have an isolation bushing so you would not be using the gas service line as an electrical ground. :dunce:

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The first part states "shall be bonded to...." THis is a clear and consise statement. A service is the first panel after or including the meter. It also states bonding to the grounded conductor (Neutral) AT the service or where the EGC is of suffient size, also AT the service.

The code you cited has almost exactly the same wording as the NEC and it not any clearer than the NEC. There is room to read both code sections in different ways.

... This does not mean that just attaching the flex connector to the appliance and the EGC to the appliance is all that needs to take place. A BOND from the appliance to the gas pipe must also be attached and accessible. This can become troublesome and a huge pain when you have multiple appliances (Stove, oven, furnace, gas fireplace w/ ignighter, etc.). ...

It does mean exactly that. You do not have to do anything more than land the EGC on the gas fired equipment. It does not mean that you have to take any extra steps. The "parent" code for both NEC and IRC sections is NFPA 54, The Fuel Gas Code. 7.13.1 of NFPA 54 says specifically that the EGC connection to the gas appliance is all that is required for the bonding of gas piping other than CSST.

 

[WIREWILLY]

gas pipe bonding

gas pipe bonding

Just had this debate w/ ahj today. He says (per 250.104.3.B) I should run a wire back to the service point (rod). I'm thinking (per last 3 sentences)...
The egc for the circuit that is likely to energize the piping system SHALL be permitted to serve as the bonding means. AND...AND (w/FPN bonding
all piping within the premises will provide ADDITIONAL safety. I also installed a bonding jumper at a (gas) pool heater, right where the gas company
entered the home w/the line for the gas fireplace.
Was I wrong to do both?

 

[kwired]

The gas utility company, here, uses plastic lines. Most gas mains here have been or are in the process of being re-lined w/ plastic. The old lines are rusting out and leaking.

If metal piping it is likely there are dielectric hubs on the gas meter or a dielectric union someplace to interrupt continuity as the gas company does not want their underground line carrying stray currents. Doesn't mean it won't carry no current at all but an effort was made to minimize it.

Please, don't laugh. I have a building inspector that failed a residential rough electrical inspection because the gas piping to the home was bonded to the ground buss in a sub panel on the other end of a house from the service equipment. I backed up the inspector by quoting 250.104(B). The inspection supervisor cannot understand WHY the equipment ground to the sub panel cannot be used as the gas bond too, if it was through an non-reversible crimp. He was not an electrician. EVER. Any comments, help, other than leave him hanging?

Non reversible crimp is not required as this is not a grounding electrode conductor. It is bonding jumper, at least the part that is the sole connection to the gas piping.

 

[dana1028]

How many homes, with gas, have you wired and bonded the gas piping at the gas meter and to the Main Service Panel? I have seen it either with a separate bond from the gas piping to the Main Panel or continuous with the water, gas and UFER/ ground rods, all bonded in one run to the panel.

IF the code is "muddied" isn't it "BEST PRACTICE" to do the safest and most restrictive? Will using the EGC run with the feeds from a panel to the gas appliance meet the code for bonding? Yes, for that appliance only, not for the entire gas piping system. I believe THAT is what is inferred with in 250.104 it states "gas piping". It doesn't state gas piping to an appliance.

1. Just because you have seen people do an over kill on gas bonding does not mean you are right in demanding over kill continue on every job you see. The reason you have prob. seen the over kill was because the electricians have already been victimized by over zealous inspectors lacking knowledge of electricity.

2. NO! You have no right to demand 'Best Practices'......you only have the right to require code compliance.... the circuit EGC 'that is likely to energize' the gas piping is allowed to be the bonding means. If that EGC goes to a sub, that sub is fed by another EGC from the service equipment.......this creates a completed bonding path from pipe to service. You are not required to like it or think it is 'the best.'

Remember - the gas piping must meet the 'likely to become energized' requirement before any bonding is required at all!

 

[wireguy8169]

I have read through all of the replies and not intending to highjack the OP's thread I have a question. Around here I have noticed on residential systems they are not bonding the gas piping other than what occurs at the appliance, I was actually instructed by the AHJ on my first project in this area that typically the gas piping is not bonded as they consider the point that it connects to the appliance chassi Code compliance. My question would be, could this be due to the type of gas pipe used as CSST was used on the new construction but some of the upgrades I have been on were black pipe and there was no bonding required.

It is also possible that the one's installing the gas line may have done the bonding, and so we did not have to worry about it for the electrical inspection. Just seems odd to me especially with what I have read by the manufactures of CSST regarding installation of their product.

 

[jaggedben]

Just had this debate w/ ahj today. He says (per 250.104.3.B) I should run a wire back to the service point (rod). I'm thinking (per last 3 sentences)...
The egc for the circuit that is likely to energize the piping system SHALL be permitted to serve as the bonding means. AND...AND (w/FPN bonding
all piping within the premises will provide ADDITIONAL safety. I also installed a bonding jumper at a (gas) pool heater, right where the gas company
entered the home w/the line for the gas fireplace.
Was I wrong to do both?

As long as you bonded on the house side of the gas meter, I think you're okay. From your post it's not clear what the first appliance that you grounded was, or how/where you bonded it.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I have read through all of the replies and not intending to highjack the OP's thread I have a question. Around here I have noticed on residential systems they are not bonding the gas piping other than what occurs at the appliance, I was actually instructed by the AHJ on my first project in this area that typically the gas piping is not bonded as they consider the point that it connects to the appliance chassi Code compliance. My question would be, could this be due to the type of gas pipe used as CSST was used on the new construction but some of the upgrades I have been on were black pipe and there was no bonding required.

The code is very specific about the piping and does not deal with CSST as an exception. If the pipe is black iron then the branch circuit egc serves as the bond. Per article 250.104(b). If there is CSST anywhere in the system then that changes and the special bonding requirements required by the manufacturer takes precedent.