Someone finally figured out a way to circumvent electricians

[goldstar]

One of my customers asked me how much it would cost to install one of these devices :

http://globalpowerproducts.com/generlink.htm

http://www.generlink.com/about_generlink.cfm#

If POCO's start allowing this and doing the install for HO's it will cut a sizable chunk out of our generator business. Mike (jwelectric) if you read this thread lets's talk about a service rated disconnect for this one

 

[Jerseydaze]

I love the generator hook ups with no load calcs dont worry you can run everything 2-3ton ac units on 7kw generator no problem.

 

[iwire]

I love the generator hook ups with no load calcs dont worry you can run everything 2-3ton ac units on 7kw generator no problem.

The power company has a much better idea of the load than either the NEC or the electrical contractor.

 

[Joethemechanic]

In a way, it really does increase safety for the line crews.

I kind of like it.

A poor load calculation really only affects one service. An improperly connected generator has the potential to electrocute a lineman, or anyone who might come into contact with a downed wire

Most home "emergency" generators are really just to power comfort items. If little Timmy needs power to his Iron lung to breath, then you probably want to have a better power back up plan than a portable generator from home depot

 

[infinity]

I think that they're a great idea. 9 out of 10 people that I've spoken with, who own a portable generator, rig up the thing illegally by back feeding something. I know of no POCO around here that offers them to their customers.

 

[goldstar]

I can appreciate and agree with the "safety" factor. This was the point I was trying to emphasize :

GenerLink? is installed by your local electric utility in less than 30 minutes. There is no need for you to be home and there is no need to rewire the house.

And BTW, no need for an electrician.

One of the reasons that the Passaic County Electrical Contractors' Association was formed and subsequently the NJ Electrical Contractors' Association was because POCO's like Atlantic Electric Power Company wanted to use their personnel to perform electrical installations. That means one electrical license for 10,000 employees and virtually unlimited $$$ to advertise, unlimited buying power and a credit line that's endless. If POCO's allow these devices to be installed it should only be by licensed electrical contractors, IMHO.

 

[Joethemechanic]

Hmmmmmmm, I can see your concern. They would take all the less complicated "gravy work" and leave only specialty and commercial/ industrial. Probably put most of the small guys out of business.

I see them having human resource problems in such an undertaking though.

Your county is all the way north and kinda center isn't it? I haven't done much work there. Although I did a ton of work at PVSC in Newark.

The day is coming though. Pretty soon houses are going to be wired with panels that have locking connectors. It's going to be like using extension cords. Molded locking ends. Impossible to connect wrong. If it's a bit too long, you'll just wind up the excess and leave it in the wall. the little bit of wasted wire will save so much on labor because they will pay guys 10 bucks an hour to install it, and it will go fast.

 

[iwire]

The day is coming though. Pretty soon houses are going to be wired with panels that have locking connectors. It's going to be like using extension cords. Molded locking ends. Impossible to connect wrong. If it's a bit too long, you'll just wind up the excess and leave it in the wall. the little bit of wasted wire will save so much on labor because they will pay guys 10 bucks an hour to install it, and it will go fast.

We already wire big box stores that way. But our guys are paid much more that $10 an hour. That is why the added cost of the supplies can be justified.


http://www.relocwiring.com/

 

[kbsparky]

They're selling `em for $700 on Amazon for a 30 Amp unit .... $850 for a 50 Amp ...

 

[Joethemechanic]

We already wire big box stores that way. But our guys are paid much more that $10 an hour. That is why the added cost of the supplies can be justified.


http://www.relocwiring.com/

Neat stuff, but once they engineer all the skilled labor out of this stuff, the wages are going to drop. Why pay skilled guys when you can get laborers to do it cheaper?

I would think that once this stuff gains a large market acceptance, the days of the skilled electrician are going to be done. All that will be left are the niche markets.

 

[iwire]

Neat stuff, but once they engineer all the skilled labor out of this stuff, the wages are going to drop. Why pay skilled guys when you can get laborers to do it cheaper?

Why paid skilled guys to do stupid tasks?

The skilled guys will still be needed to troubleshoot the systems and the big box retailers use more technical systems all the time.

I run a service department, the guys I work with have to know many skill sets that only a generation ago where unheard of.

I would think that once this stuff gains a large market acceptance, the days of the skilled electrician are going to be done. All that will be left are the niche markets.

And people have been saying such things since the trade began.

 

[goldstar]

Your county is all the way north and kinda center isn't it? I haven't done much work there. Although I did a ton of work at PVSC in Newark.

Yep. That's us. We're just north of Newark (Essex County)

The day is coming though. Pretty soon houses are going to be wired with panels that have locking connectors. It's going to be like using extension cords. Molded locking ends. Impossible to connect wrong. If it's a bit too long, you'll just wind up the excess and leave it in the wall. the little bit of wasted wire will save so much on labor because they will pay guys 10 bucks an hour to install it, and it will go fast.

That day is here. Houses are being pre-fabbed in Penn and shipped here in via semi in parts. Cranes put the pieces into place. Once the parts go together they're connected by Molex connectors (for lack of a better term). Breaker panel is mounted. The only thing you may have to do (in some areas) is connect the triplex. All inspections are done in PA. The only thing you need is a final inspection. Kind of takes the fun out of electrical work doesn't it ?

 

[ceb58]

I love the generator hook ups with no load calcs dont worry you can run everything 2-3ton ac units on 7kw generator no problem.

Until the CMP changes 702.4 (B)(1) then the worry about a load calcs. is out the window.
These things are like the surge protectors we use to buy at the supply house for up-sells to home owners. The poco's put at stop to that real quick because of pulling their meters. Now the only ones that can do the work is contractors that work for the poco.
But I see a lot of service calls because of these things. Wonder how the GFI's will work on the generators when plugged in?

 

[Joethemechanic]

Sure, you are going to have your commercial/industrial


But what is going to happen to the residential market?

Repairing old installations?

What are the resi guys going to do?

Do you think they can all be absorbed into the high tech markets?

 

[iwire]

Sure, you are going to have your commercial/industrial


But what is going to happen to the residential market?

Repairing old installations?

What are the resi guys going to do?

Do you think they can all be absorbed into the high tech markets?

I think no matter how much 'plug and play' equipment comes on the market we will need people capable of troubleshooting.

I also am firmly against keeping new methods off the market for the reason of keeping people busy.

 

[kwired]

Yep. That's us. We're just north of Newark (Essex County) That day is here. Houses are being pre-fabbed in Penn and shipped here in via semi in parts. Cranes put the pieces into place. Once the parts go together they're connected by Molex connectors (for lack of a better term). Breaker panel is mounted. The only thing you may have to do (in some areas) is connect the triplex. All inspections are done in PA. The only thing you need is a final inspection. Kind of takes the fun out of electrical work doesn't it ?

Someone still had to assemble it in the plant. They probably were not as skilled as the field installers. This is no different from the first assembly line a long time ago. Imagine how much a lot of products would cost if there was no automation, or assembly lines, etc. and one person made the entire product. There would be no consistancy from one item to the next either, somebody else made the other one. There would be lots of jobs though.

Sure, you are going to have your commercial/industrial


But what is going to happen to the residential market?

Repairing old installations?

What are the resi guys going to do?

Do you think they can all be absorbed into the high tech markets?

They will have to find another job just like millions of others have when their jobs disappeared for similar reasons.
Like it or not that is reality. This kind of thing has happened many times since the industrial revolution and will continue.

 

[iwire]

They will have to find another job just like millions of others have when their jobs disappeared for similar reasons.
Like it or not that is reality. This kind of thing has happened many times since the industrial revolution and will continue.

Exactly, there used to be huge industry cutting, storing and delivering ice to homes. Not so much any more.

 

[kwired]

One of my customers asked me how much it would cost to install one of these devices :

http://globalpowerproducts.com/generlink.htm

http://www.generlink.com/about_generlink.cfm#

If POCO's start allowing this and doing the install for HO's it will cut a sizable chunk out of our generator business. Mike (jwelectric) if you read this thread lets's talk about a service rated disconnect for this one

POCO's around here have been installing these for years (like 30+) on farms and other rural services. They use the one with the meter and transfer switch all in one unit. They do charge customer for them but is less than any EC can install anything equivelant for.

http://www.durhamcompany.com/products/generator-transfer-switch

 

[Joethemechanic]

I am not against the technology either, but it's nice to stay on top of it in order to forecast the market.

Those things could create a major change in the resi/light commercial generator market. Think of it, gen install without having to set foot in the house.

We are at the stage now where generators could be set in place and have zero on site maintenance for periods of 5 years (life of starting batteries). From my generator days I can tell you that most times I did a PM, the filters and the oil I took out were almost as clean as the new ones I put in. And really, most of the time these things only accumulate 50 or less hours of run time in a year (most from the exerciser) I think I have seen more damage from improperly performed PMs than I have from neglected PMs. Like it or not, oil changes, and filter changes create trauma of their own on engines. And I see plenty of other industrial engines go for 1,000 hours or more with no PMs

Although I would not trust gasoline or diesel fuel system to go that long because of the degradation of the fuel.

But that would not stop a natural gas or LP gas system from performing flawlessly for years totally "hands off"

I would think that a generator of 50 KW could be mounted to a precast mesh reinforced slab and dropped on site with no more site prep than a level piece of dirt compacted with nothing more than a vibraplate or a jumping jack.

What's left?

Bang a ground rod in maybe and connect a couple of cables with plugs on their ends?

I would think with the right tools and maybe a bobcat you could have a generator installed and tested in 2 hours without ever stepping in the house with your dirty work boots.


And maybe you can answer this Bob. What regulatory issues? What kind of cable? Above ground or below? And could it be done without an inspection from the AHJ? Could you be in and out without having to wait on some other entity?

How could the design be changed to take the AHJ out of the picture? (to cut time not safety)

 

[Fulthrotl]

We already wire big box stores that way. But our guys are paid much more that $10 an hour. That is why the added cost of the supplies can be justified.


http://www.relocwiring.com/

"Since 1977, RELOC Wiring Solutions has been the leader in modular branch
circuit wiring for light fixtures - providing customers with maximum flexibility
and substantial cost savings."

first time i ever saw the stuff was in 1978, and it was pretty funky... they
have made some changes since then.... but.... how much stuff is premade now....
and that trend will continue...

and fiber optic was gonna be the next big thing in connectivity, and splicing it
would be a high demand skill.... now, you buy a kit, and it takes a few minutes..

and mv and hv cable splicing is an art form...... need five years experience....
till the first time i did a 5kv termination with a 3m kit... first one was 40 minutes
to learn how, by the end of the day, it was 25 minutes......

this isn't new..... from Wikipedia....

"The Luddites were a social movement of 19th-century English textile artisans
who protested ? often by destroying mechanized looms ? against the changes
produced by the Industrial Revolution, which they felt were leaving them without
work and changing their way of life."