Bonding Neutral Bars

[Pizza]

I have an existing 100 amp main breaker panel thats being used as a sub panel. The existing installer broke a bonding tab between the two neutral/ grounding bars on each side of the panel and used one side for the neutrals and one side for the grounding conductors.
However when they did this the choose to land the neutrals on the side that had about half the terminals as the grounding side. And I need to land four more neutral wires for new circuits.
My plan is to remove the grounding conductors off the terminal bar and install a separate grounding bar and bond it to the panel. Next I want to bond the neutral bar to the other terminal bar where the grounding conductors were once landed so I can get more spaces to land my neutrals. My thought was just to run a number 4 between the terminal bars and bond the that way. Anyone see a problem with this?:blink:

 

[mike7330]

No. You would violate the listing of the panel. You need to find the ?bonding tab? or a new one to return the panel to the original design. I have run across this with the General Electric panels, where the ?electrician? removed the insulated neutral crossover bar and installed grounds on one side and the grounded conductors on the other, The property owner was lucky, the bar was left in the bottom of the panel and I was able to correct. Good luck

 

[resistance]

Who says you can?t modify a main service rated panel to be used as a non-service rated panel?? You can do this. Run a jumper between the two isolated neutral terminal bars, and install an equipment grounding terminal bar to the metal cabinet.

Now, I could be mistaken to say all manufactures will allow their equipment to be modified, but I have never seen one (Service rated panel) that couldn?t.

 

[resistance]

One very important point is to make sure the jumper is insulated (Not bare).
They have panels that are multi-purpose—having an insulated jumper that connects two isolated grounding bars. With a bond from one bar to cabinet. These attachments can be removed to make the panel a non-service rated panel (AKA Sub). I had a similar problem. But my jumper was between the equipment grounding bars. Depending on the year of the panel, you may be able to buy an insulated jumper from the manufacture, or have it ordered from a local electrical supply house. I don’t see a problem with using an insulated conductor—sized per code in place of the supplied insulated jumper.

Interesting enough, this could be a potential hazard, if the bond between the neutral are lost. Example: A MWBC.

I take back what I said. It may be best to install a neutral bar in place of the old one, and not use a jumper. Goodness, must be the tax audit I just went through

 

[resistance]

And why can?t we go back and correct possible mistakes. :thumbsdown:

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

I have an existing 100 amp main breaker panel thats being used as a sub panel. The existing installer broke a bonding tab between the two neutral/ grounding bars on each side of the panel and used one side for the neutrals and one side for the grounding conductors.
However when they did this the choose to land the neutrals on the side that had about half the terminals as the grounding side. And I need to land four more neutral wires for new circuits.
My plan is to remove the grounding conductors off the terminal bar and install a separate grounding bar and bond it to the panel. Next I want to bond the neutral bar to the other terminal bar where the grounding conductors were once landed so I can get more spaces to land my neutrals. My thought was just to run a number 4 between the terminal bars and bond the that way. Anyone see a problem with this?:blink:

I don't see any problem with this. The original should not have cut the tab IMO, he should have added a ground bar if needed. But since it was done I don't see any reason you could not do what you propose.

 

[kwired]

One very important point is to make sure the jumper is insulated (Not bare).
They have panels that are multi-purpose?having an insulated jumper that connects two isolated grounding bars. With a bond from one bar to cabinet. These attachments can be removed to make the panel a non-service rated panel (AKA Sub). I had a similar problem. But my jumper was between the equipment grounding bars. Depending on the year of the panel, you may be able to buy an insulated jumper from the manufacture, or have it ordered from a local electrical supply house. I don?t see a problem with using an insulated conductor?sized per code in place of the supplied insulated jumper.

Interesting enough, this could be a potential hazard, if the bond between the neutral are lost. Example: A MWBC.

I take back what I said. It may be best to install a neutral bar in place of the old one, and not use a jumper. Goodness, must be the tax audit I just went through

Seen the bond between bars lost with factory installed connecting components, you still have same results as if a field installed bond is installed and becomes open circuited.

 

[resistance]

Seen the bond between bars lost with factory installed connecting components, you still have same results as if a field installed bond is installed and becomes open circuited.

TY!! I?m aware of this. Happy to see others are responding. Seems like anytime I post no one response! Either I?m right all the time (That would be a miracle), or the regulars only attend to their own. Maybe I should post something waaaay out in left field!
Strangely enough, I can get a response from Mike Holts family quicker than I can get a response here!!!! :?

Sorry for highjacking!!!

 

[Pizza]

Thanks for the replies. I'm just going to do it. We'll see if the inspector pops me.

 

[resistance]

Thanks for the replies. I'm just going to do it. We'll see if the inspector pops me.

He shouldn?t, if you use an insulated conductor.