Finding the First Receptacle

[Little Bill]

I need to install a GFCI receptacle and feed downstream from it. Anyone got any tips/shortcuts to finding the first receptacle? Or is it just opening all the boxes, disconnecting the wires until I find the feed?

 

[jumper]

Closest box to the panel. but you already know that...

 

[Little Bill]

Closest box to the panel. but you already know that...

Yep, I do know that, but the way this house has been layed out and added on to. that would be questionable.

 

[Ponchik]

If you have to go through all that trouble finding the first receptacle, why not install GFCI breaker?


edited: you probably have a panel that a GFCI breaker is not available?

 

[jumper]

If you have to go through all that trouble finding the first receptacle, why not install GFCI breaker?


edited: you probably have a panel that a GFCI breaker is not available?

GFCI breakers are prone to nuisance trips. Cumalitive leakage.

 

[Little Bill]

If you have to go through all that trouble finding the first receptacle, why not install GFCI breaker?


edited: you probably have a panel that a GFCI breaker is not available?

This is a house that has been sold and to meet the rules of the type loan they are getting, a few things have to be brought to code. They do not want GFCI breakers, just receptacles. This is a two story house with a basement and has been added on to and cut up and the wiring runs all over the map.

 

[hillbilly1]

Being chopped up like that there may not be a "first" receptacle, they may have tee tapped in a j box somewhere at the start of the run. Have fun! A circuit tracer (such as the one Amprobe makes) that draws a current on the circuit might help, if you have one, plug it in, then go from receptacle to receptacle, if you pick up the signal, at another receptacle, you will know it is before the one you are plugged into back to the panel. You would probably have to turn off all circuits but the one your working on to narrow down the results.

 

[Fulthrotl]

This is a house that has been sold and to meet the rules of the type loan they are getting, a few things have to be brought to code. They do not want GFCI breakers, just receptacles. This is a two story house with a basement and has been added on to and cut up and the wiring runs all over the map.

don't daisy chain them. put a gfci device every place that one is required.... what's that, six or eight outlets?

no mystery dead plug strings cause the gfci in the bathroom trips..... no parallel runs in the walls for inductance, etc.

 

[hurk27]

I also might add that many houses were spidered from the light outlets, making all the receptacles the first one, if you see only two wires in a switch (white and a black out of only one NM) then suspect that each outlet runs from the light outlet.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Unless there is a very long distance involved the gfci breaker should work fine. Otherwise as others have said you may have to add many gfci receptacles because of the way it may be wired.

 

[George Stolz]

To get a rough idea, test neutral to ground. The resistance will go up slightly the farther you are from the service.

 

[growler]

To get a rough idea, test neutral to ground. The resistance will go up slightly the farther you are from the service.

I have used the Ideal "Sure Test" to do voltage drop test on the receptacles and the closest will have a lower voltage drop. Same idea.

 

[Ponchik]

GFCI breakers are prone to nuisance trips. Cumalitive leakage.

what is cumalitive leakage?

what is the difference between the 1st GFCI outlet and the GFCI breaker? They are both 1st in line. If there is s problem then they will both trip. Why would a breaker nuisance trip?

 

[dhalleron]

I was going to put in GFCI receptacles to downstream protect ungrounded romex in a house I bought. I found all of the receptacles to only have one cable feeding them and all the splices were made in junction boxes in the attic. They didn?t even use the light fixture boxes as a junction box.
I thought about installing GFCI breakers, but didn?t really want the lights going out if one tripped. Maybe that wouldn?t happen much anyway and would be a big deal.

I ended up replacing them all with non grounding type receptacles.

Maybe cost wise it would have been ok to use GFCI breakers since my non grounding type receptacles cost $2 each.

 

[sameguy]

Put a gfci next to the pan. done!

 

[Little Bill]

I was extremely lucky in that I found the receptacle in each area the first try. I had to do the job today and didn't have time to buy one of the tracers mentioned. There were multiple locations in each area that I wouldn't have thought was on the same circuit, but they were. I was also fortunate to find another panel that had 2 GFCI breakers that controlled the bathrooms and outside. I think the inspector just saw regular receptacles in the baths and didn't see the breakers for them, so he just reported no GFCI in the baths. This house was 3700 sq ft. and the wiring was crazy. The new owner came in and asked what I was doing, so I explained the GFCIs to him. I had added one in the laundry room and he said he didn't think one was needed for a washer. I said that is correct if it is just the washer, but there was a sink with a receptacle within 6' so GFCI was needed there. I love when people help me out when I'm working.:dunce:

 

[don_resqcapt19]

what is cumalitive leakage?

what is the difference between the 1st GFCI outlet and the GFCI breaker? They are both 1st in line. If there is s problem then they will both trip. Why would a breaker nuisance trip?

There is no such thing as a perfect insulator so all conductors and equipment have leakage. The longer the conductors the more the leakage. The cumulative leakage is the all of the leakage on the conductors and the equipment on that circuit.

The only difference in the cumulative leakage between having a GFCI breaker in the panel and installing a GFCI receptacle at the first receptacle outlet is the leakage on the conductors between the panel and the first receptacle. This is very unlikely to add enough leakage to cause nuisance tripping.

I don't think the conductor leakage becomes an issue until you have hundreds of feet installed in a wet location.