Leave 2 open spaces in panel?
- Thread starter aptman3
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Unless it's a local code requirement the inspector doesn't know what he's talking about.
Joethemechanic
Senior Member
- Location
- Hazleton Pa
- Occupation
- Electro-Mechanical Technician. Industrial machinery
Not that I'm aware of. I just made it up years ago.
renosteinke
Senior Member
- Location
- NE Arkansas
I believe there is such a requirement for those in Canada.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Engineer
What? Shirt pockets?
:roll:coffeebean
Senior Member
- Location
- Mercer County NJ
I don't know where he came up with 2 spaces but art. 90.8 calls for additional spaces allow for future increases in electric power
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Basically that is saying that it may be a good idea but that is not a requirement. 90.1(B) tells us that the NEC is "but not necessarily efficient, convenient, or adequate for good service or future expansion of electrical use.".
- Location
- Logan, Utah
I agree that the inspector is most likely using 90.8(A) as justification for the 2 spare spaces.
Article 90 is an introduction and provides information on what is covered by the NEC and the layout of the Code. 90.8(A) is not enforceable but is there for informational purposes only.
Chris
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Did you ask him what you are to do in the future when those 2 spaces get used?
What if load calculation says no more load allowed and you have dozens of open spaces?
Easy way if there is capacity for more load on a full panel is to remove two spaces(or three for three phase), install a breaker to sub feed another panel and move the circuit(s) you had removed to the new sub feed panel.
What if load calculation says no more load allowed and you have dozens of open spaces?
Easy way if there is capacity for more load on a full panel is to remove two spaces(or three for three phase), install a breaker to sub feed another panel and move the circuit(s) you had removed to the new sub feed panel.
construct
Senior Member
- Location
- Branson, Missouri
It's irritating when I hear inspectors using code by "Joe Know It All", instead of Code by Adoption. :thumbsdown:
jmellc
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
- Occupation
- Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
Politely ask him for a code reference. Call him if you have to or ask him at next job, "BTW, I have been looking for the code reference on that 2 space rule and I can't find it anywhere. Could I get a reading of the law on it?"
He should not mind you asking that & he should be able to find the document. If he says "that's what we require", insist that you need documentation.
He should not mind you asking that & he should be able to find the document. If he says "that's what we require", insist that you need documentation.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
So did he fail the project or just ask to leave these open spaces?
Most places if it is going to require a change before it will pass it is law they have to notify you what law you have violated - and that law is typically the NEC and the corresponding section that applies, or a local amendment to the NEC.
If they can't cite anything considered the law they don't have a basis to fail it, even if they are arrogant.
electricguy
Senior Member
- Location
- British Columbia Canada
Fulthrotl
~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
- Occupation
- E
yep... ya gotta have two pockets in canada......
- Location
- Massachusetts
Can anyone post the Canadian section requiring empty spaces?
I am very curious how they would word such a requirement.
When can the spaces be filled?
I am very curious how they would word such a requirement.
When can the spaces be filled?
Twoskinsoneman
Senior Member
- Location
- West Virginia, USA NEC: 2020
- Occupation
- Facility Senior Electrician
Found this in Ebmag but it's not much help
I think it's a direct quote because it matches a couple of other quoted areas in various forums.
Answers
to Code Conundrum
Electrical Business October 2006
Q-1: What is the minimum number of spare circuits to be left in
the panel of a single-family dwelling panel when a dryer
and stove are installed?
a) 2 Rule 8-108(2). Sufficient spaces for overcurrent devices
shall be provided in the panelboard for the two 35A double-pole
overcurrent devices and for all other overcurrent devices,
and at least two additional spaces shall be left for future
overcurrent devices.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
I brought that up earlier - when the time comes to add something later - how do you use them and still leave 2 open spaces? Or are we leaving these for the guys that don't know codes or file permits.
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