Washer and dryer turned on by itself???

[cmr]

I have a client who just had an electrical fire in thier garage. The fire department report states a power strip was the cause and that there was a space heater that overloaded the power strip.
the report states that the washer and dryer where running when they arrived at the garage
where the fire took place. Yet, the owner denies turning them on!?

Now, owner is asking me why the breaker did not trip and why "I think" the washer,dryer may
have come on?

I feel I have to be very careful with my responce as I feel they are trying to lay blame on me.

We upgrade the service and ran deadicated circuits to the garage. We did not do any
additional work in the garage, just to the first juctionbox. The units had and still have multiple
unworkmanlike electrical work done that we have not been able to get to. May have been a little to late.

Anyone with some good advice?

 

[sameguy]

How big was the fire?
Sounds like the control wires melted, did they come on when you pluged them in?

 

[growler]

I have a client who just had an electrical fire in thier garage. The fire department report states a power strip was the cause and that there was a space heater that overloaded the power strip.

Now, owner is asking me why the breaker did not trip and why "I think" the washer,dryer may
have come on?

A breaker is sized to protect branch circuit conductors. Is the breaker the correct size?

If the breaker is the right size and the branch circuit wiring isn't fried. Well it's between him and his insurance company.

I would get and keep a copy of the Fire Marshals report about the power strip.

 

[K8MHZ]

I have a client who just had an electrical fire in thier garage. The fire department report states a power strip was the cause and that there was a space heater that overloaded the power strip.
the report states that the washer and dryer where running when they arrived at the garage
where the fire took place. Yet, the owner denies turning them on!?

Now, owner is asking me why the breaker did not trip and why "I think" the washer,dryer may
have come on?

I feel I have to be very careful with my responce as I feel they are trying to lay blame on me.

We upgrade the service and ran deadicated circuits to the garage. We did not do any
additional work in the garage, just to the first juctionbox. The units had and still have multiple
unworkmanlike electrical work done that we have not been able to get to. May have been a little to late.

Anyone with some good advice?

I would let someone with fire forensic experience handle this one.

To me, it's FAR more possible that someone turned on the washer and dryer and didn't remember doing it than both of them turning themselves on at the same time.

If the space heater and whatever else was plugged into the strip drew more current than the strip was rated for, the person that plugged the space heater in is purely and solely responsible for the fire.

If the strip was rated for the load and defective, there would be no way you would be responsible unless you supplied the strip.

If you think you are being targeted, the less you say, the better. It's not a bad thing to admit you are not qualified answer their questions, especially after a fire.

For instance, have you had any formal training as to why a breaker may not trip supported by case studies? If not, you would be simply guessing, and that may get you in a pickle.

 

[charlie b]

Breakers don't trip unless there is a very high current for a short time, or a slightly high current for a very long time. The breaker's job is to protect the wire that runs from the breaker to the load, not to protect the load itself. You can be running more current through a plug strip than it is rated to handle, and still not have a high enough current to cause the breaker to trip. If the fire really did start at the plug strip, then it is the fault of the resident for overloading it.

As to the washer and dryer, I could not say, without first seeing the machines themselves. My own washer and dryer cannot be running unless you physically turn a dial and then push a button. I don't think any amount of heat-induced damage would change that.

 

[growler]

We upgrade the service and ran deadicated circuits to the garage. We did not do any
additional work in the garage, just to the first juctionbox. The units had and still have multiple
unworkmanlike electrical work done that we have not been able to get to. May have been a little to late.

One or two questions.

Did you run power to the receptacle that was feeding the power strip? Did this receptacle have GFCI protection?

The reason I ask is that when you run the feed ( home run ) for a circuit you need to make sure the circuit is up to code and safe because you are the one that powered it up.

That's why I don't like making terminations for circuits that others did.

 

[Joethemechanic]

I would let someone with fire forensic experience handle this one.

If you think you are being targeted, the less you say, the better. It's not a bad thing to admit you are not qualified answer their questions, especially after a fire.

For instance, have you had any formal training as to why a breaker may not trip supported by case studies? If not, you would be simply guessing, and that may get you in a pickle.

Even though you may not be talking to law enforcement, everything this guy says still applies

?Once the toothpaste is out of the tube, it's hard to get it back in!?

H. R. Haldeman

 

[GUNNING]

$

$

yup,


Now ya tell me,

thanx.:slaphead:

It is always nice insurance to have an attorney on retainer. It's worth the couple of bucks.
By the way my wife is an attorney and I don't use her.

 

[ceb58]

If you think you are being targeted, the less you say, the better.

You have the right to remain silent, any thing you say can and will be used against you.................

 

[svh19044]

Being that you upgraded the service, can I ASSume that you got an inspection?

The fire department report states a power strip was the cause and that there was a space heater that overloaded the power strip.

Don't sweat it.

 

[realolman]

I am lost.

we run our washer and dryer all the time. Why should they not be able to go thru their cycles at the same time? Were there clothes in the washer and dryer?

How is a power strip involved ....and an electric heater?

I think you should have "no comment". but doesn't your work end at the receptacle?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If it is a plug strip that caught fire I would not lose sleep over it. I have had 3 houses burn to the ground that I wired. Of course, when you get the news you worry but in reality most fires are not started in the walls due to electrical causes.

BTW, the houses that burned were not my fault-- chimney fire, plugged in heater, and a battery charger have been the blame for those fires. I also got to wire 2 of them again--the third never rebuilt.

 

[charlie b]

I am lost. we run our washer and dryer all the time. Why should they not be able to go thru their cycles at the same time?

The issue is not whether both were running together, or only one at a time. The issue is that they were running without the owner having intentionally turned them on. The question is whether any aspect of the fire event could have caused the two machines to start running.

Were there clothes in the washer and dryer?

Good question. If the owner denies having turned on the machines, and if there were no clothes in either machine, it would tend to backup the owner's story.

 

[K8MHZ]

The issue is not whether both were running together, or only one at a time. The issue is that they were running without the owner having intentionally turned them on. The question is whether any aspect of the fire event could have caused the two machines to start running.
Good question. If the owner denies having turned on the machines, and if there were no clothes in either machine, it would tend to backup the owner's story.

And why would they be heating the room if they weren't using it?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Did the fire get to the w/d or were they somewhere else unscathed by the fire. If so something sounds fishy.

 

[charlie b]

And why would they be heating the room if they weren't using it?

I don't know why they had a space heater in the garage. It might have been because they were doing laundry. It might have been because they planned on doing some other task at the work bench.

 

[renosteinke]

Unless these machines had control 'buttons' that worked using the change in capacitance when touched, there is NO EFFIN WAY the machines turned themselves one just because there was a fire in the room.

Frankly, I've never seen such controls on laundry equipment ... just some (now discontinued) elevator call buttons.

 

[Warmsmeallup]

This may be nothing at all but just yesterday I read a recall about a microwave oven from GE that would cause a fire when it self activated. Check to see if there's a recall on the W/D.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

I wouldn't worry a bit. Anyone who leaves a space heater plugged into a power strip on, and unattended is asking for trouble. And since the FD already stated that's where the fire started it's a no-brainer.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

This may be nothing at all but just yesterday I read a recall about a microwave oven from GE that would cause a fire when it self activated. Check to see if there's a recall on the W/D.

Ge did have Microwave range hoods that started fires by themselves but 2 units that started by themselves is weird unless they are a stack it but even then it is odd.