Figuring conduit routings

[Hotwiredinthevi]

While I have done some estimating I am by no means seasoned and also looking at how others plan out their work. I've been using Planswift which allows me to do an overlay of the roof joists and the mechanical ducts. Based on this I can tell where the panels are falling with respect to the steel strusses up above. When I figure homerun routings I always go from the home run device perpendicular to the joists first and then turn towards the panel parallel to the joists. My rationale is that by going perpendicular first I can support the single conduit with inexpensive clips and hangers. Then when all the home run conduits meet in the same 'bay' (space between the joists) I can then use the trapeze hangers to pick up a multitude of conduits. Curious if anybody has other techniques for laying out the work.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

While I have done some estimating I am by no means seasoned and also looking at how others plan out their work. I've been using Planswift which allows me to do an overlay of the roof joists and the mechanical ducts. Based on this I can tell where the panels are falling with respect to the steel strusses up above. When I figure homerun routings I always go from the home run device perpendicular to the joists first and then turn towards the panel parallel to the joists. My rationale is that by going perpendicular first I can support the single conduit with inexpensive clips and hangers. Then when all the home run conduits meet in the same 'bay' (space between the joists) I can then use the trapeze hangers to pick up a multitude of conduits. Curious if anybody has other techniques for laying out the work.

Interesting... I never thought of that? Does anyone look at mech drawing or other to help determine conduit routines especially banks of conduits? Hotwire... What panels are you referring to? Thanks

 

[Fulthrotl]

If there is a large floor with a few corridors and 30-40 rooms and you run feeders from a central electrical room on the floor to various locations on he floor how do estimators determine the routing? What I mean is do you lays follow the coridoors or can you cut through rooms etc. what determines the route you would use? I am referring to new construction. Thanks

a shop i worked for a good while ago, they were in the 60~75 M per year range for size,
had a rule of thumb they used for running EMT above 2" trade size.

a man could rack and run 100' a day on big tube. that is a global average, based on
30 years of contracting.

not trying to be critical here, but what you are asking is so vague as to be unanswerable.

you can use estimating software, but there is no substitute for experience. the best estimators
are people who have DONE it in the real world, not talked about it.

you want to actually know how long it takes to bend 4" on a one shot bender? ask someone in
your office to clear you for a field trip to be a grunt for a day on a job where they are running
big tube.... be a grunt, and help the guy run the pipe... you may have an issue if it's a union
shop, but a week spent in boot camp would answer a lot of your questions.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

a shop i worked for a good while ago, they were in the 60~75 M per year range for size,
had a rule of thumb they used for running EMT above 2" trade size.

a man could rack and run 100' a day on big tube. that is a global average, based on
30 years of contracting.

not trying to be critical here, but what you are asking is so vague as to be unanswerable.

you can use estimating software, but there is no substitute for experience. the best estimators
are people who have DONE it in the real world, not talked about it.

you want to actually know how long it takes to bend 4" on a one shot bender? ask someone in
your office to clear you for a field trip to be a grunt for a day on a job where they are running
big tube.... be a grunt, and help the guy run the pipe... you may have an issue if it's a union
shop, but a week spent in boot camp would answer a lot of your questions.

No offense taken at all. Don't need to know how long it takes to bend. That what NECA MLU is for. But that's just a guide. What asking about determining routing pathways for horizontal conduit runs. Although I do agree I know of many many estimators who were not electricians. I actually have been told that electricians who estimate never get the job because their price is so high because of their experience in the field.

 

[Strathead]

you can use estimating software, but there is no substitute for experience. the best estimators
are people who have DONE it in the real world, not talked about it.

you want to actually know how long it takes to bend 4" on a one shot bender? ask someone in
your office to clear you for a field trip to be a grunt for a day on a job where they are running
big tube.... be a grunt, and help the guy run the pipe... you may have an issue if it's a union
shop, but a week spent in boot camp would answer a lot of your questions.

With all due respect I tend to disagree with you here. I believe the experience you need to estimate is estimating experience. When you try to figure out how long it takes to bend one 4" 90 you get a piece of information that is only part of the puzzle. The estimating software will get you closer to the correct time almost every day of the week. In my experience, unless you have been taught to estimate, you will come in low all day long from having "done it in the real world". My mentor taught me, to use my brain and come up with a quick figure for how long something would take and then double it. Until my brain started to realize the need for this and adjust on its own. This worked for me, for a long time, and I have passed it on.

So, while I do agree that having done it in the real world is a valuable asset in estimating, you still benefit most from estimating training and experience. My biggest downfall, to this day (10 years of solid estimating experience) is that I get too hung up on what I know it right in the real world (or wrong with the plans) when it is not my job as an estimator to design the electrical system.

 

[sameguy]

If you are not at least 1/2 azz designing the job how do you price it?
All of my prints have a dot that say HR#. A one line gear drawing, so I need to look at all trades to make sure we do not have to move later. Pull box, cores, etc.
This could be why I am high on many of my bids, having come from the field and see what a "pro" guesstimator puts out and then try to bring a job in with the numbers (lowest bid).

 

[cdslotz]

So, while I do agree that having done it in the real world is a valuable asset in estimating, you still benefit most from estimating training and experience. My biggest downfall, to this day (10 years of solid estimating experience) is that I get too hung up on what I know it right in the real world (or wrong with the plans) when it is not my job as an estimator to design the electrical system.

That is not a downfall. your job as an estimator is to get low.....by a little bit. All the while not leaving anything out. Period.
It's up to project management, supervision, planning to bring the job in. Period.

 

[Strathead]

That is not a downfall. your job as an estimator is to get low.....by a little bit. All the while not leaving anything out. Period.
It's up to project management, supervision, planning to bring the job in. Period.

My perspective is a little different. Not saying you are wrong or I am right, I have always had this philosophy...

First, there is estimating and there is bidding. Before I actually started bidding work, I had a boss who asked if I could estimate. I told him, I could estimate, but I was not prepared to bid. He asked what I meant, he was not an Elctrician BTW. I could take off a set of plans, I rarely, to this day, miss the actual labor used on a 500 hour or more job (that I win of course), by 10%. I am usually close on material as well. Bidding only starts with an estimate. You need, costs, markups, overhead, an understanding of local and your companies labor force, who your competition is, who you are bidding to, how badly you wnat the job, how much you are willing to make, along with many other minor factors to bid properly.

So, the other part is, the downfall thing. You need to be able to estimate in the allotted time as well. If you get hung up on the details, you can take forever on a medium sized project, let alone a large one. It is a downfall, if you try to worry about whether 10 out of 200 receptacles are surface instead of flush, or whether 3 fixtures must be hard piped out of a hundred. More accurate, too much time.

 

[cdslotz]

My perspective is a little different. Not saying you are wrong or I am right, I have always had this philosophy...

First, there is estimating and there is bidding. Before I actually started bidding work, I had a boss who asked if I could estimate. I told him, I could estimate, but I was not prepared to bid. He asked what I meant, he was not an Elctrician BTW. I could take off a set of plans, I rarely, to this day, miss the actual labor used on a 500 hour or more job (that I win of course), by 10%. I am usually close on material as well. Bidding only starts with an estimate. You need, costs, markups, overhead, an understanding of local and your companies labor force, who your competition is, who you are bidding to, how badly you wnat the job, how much you are willing to make, along with many other minor factors to bid properly.

So, the other part is, the downfall thing. You need to be able to estimate in the allotted time as well. If you get hung up on the details, you can take forever on a medium sized project, let alone a large one. It is a downfall, if you try to worry about whether 10 out of 200 receptacles are surface instead of flush, or whether 3 fixtures must be hard piped out of a hundred. More accurate, too much time.

I agree. I don't worry the details. Like I said earlier, as long as I have the right length of conduit/wire/elbows, etc, I'm good. The field needs to work out the routing.
I don't worry about the other guy who comes in 12% lower than me. He has a scope issue.