- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I received this PM from a new member. I thought it better out here for all of us to see.
embryo3 said:
Hydromassage Tub
- Thread starter Dennis Alwon
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Are we to assume this is an individual circuit?
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
I say nothing wrong with the installation and that nothing in 680 even applies to what is being asked.
The receptacle needs to be accessible, but does not need to be readily accessible.
Some will say if it is a GFCI receptacle, it needs to be readily accessible because of a change in 210.8 in 2011 NEC. I say nothing in 210.8 applies to a hydromassage tub and it can still be located within the mechanical area of the tub like many of us have done for years.
The receptacle needs to be accessible, but does not need to be readily accessible.
Some will say if it is a GFCI receptacle, it needs to be readily accessible because of a change in 210.8 in 2011 NEC. I say nothing in 210.8 applies to a hydromassage tub and it can still be located within the mechanical area of the tub like many of us have done for years.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
It isn't because of 210.8 -- look at 680.71 in the 2008 NEC
Which code cycle is he working under? (680 VII) In the 2011, 680.73 was changed to restrict the location of the receptacle to within 1 foot of the opening and facing the opening. IMO, in the 2008 cycle, as long as 680.73 is met, and he doesn't have to tear anything up, he is okay. (as long as it is an individual circuit as you pointed out. 680.71)
Last edited:
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
I see that was a change in 2008 NEC and have to admit I may have gotten away with GFCI in an non readily accessible space a few times since that went into effect.
It is also not covered by part IV as was asked. My answer to the question remains "nothing wrong with the install as it is presented".
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Wasn't aware of that change either. But would likely comply with it anyway with most of my installations. I wish those units would be designed to be hard wired to a certain extent as it is not always easy to find a place to put a receptacle.
The only good thing about being cord and plug connected, especially if no GFCI recep is allowed in the space is using the cord and plug as a disconnecting means.
stickboy1375
Senior Member
- Location
- Litchfield, CT
As a side note, in the state of Connecticut, this would be a violation, the GFCI must be readily accessible...
Where do you mount your GFCI?
John120/240
Senior Member
- Location
- Olathe, Kansas
Usually on an adjacent wall of the bathroom. Down low or vanity height doesn't matter, she
might want to plug in a space heater. Or another option is put the GFCI in an adjacent closet.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
We have for years used blank face GFCI devices feeding a receptacle under the tub just to make it easy for the HO to reset it if it ever trips, but I question whether or not a GFCI receptacle under a tub that is located behind a removable or hinged door is not considered Readily Accessible if it is designed for access, not talking about a screwed in place cover that would resort to tools, just a easily removable cover like they have on the side of some of these tubs?
so which of these definitions fits the best:\
I feel it is capable of being
reached quickly for operation if it is behind a readily removable door/cover, no different then OCPD's behind a panel cover door?
so which of these definitions fits the best:\
I feel it is capable of being
reached quickly for operation if it is behind a readily removable door/cover, no different then OCPD's behind a panel cover door?
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
That's the way that I read it.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
The problem is that many of those accesses are very hard to get to and in very inconvenient places. Sometimes screws need to be removed etc. I also use the dead front GFCI on the wall in the bath room. No issues with the code on that
But we must put into consideration of worse case scenario, say tub is in use when GFCI recept. trips under the tub, do we want the user
to be able to try and reset the GFCI recpt. while still in the tub? hopefully they are not that ignorant, i say dead front other side of room
would be best,
around here they let us use OCPD so they have to walk all the way down stairs (or garage), while soaking wet, to stand in water from not getting
dried off, in front of an energized panel, with bare feet on a concrete floor, well no problems there!
Wouldn't that be a direct voilation of 680.71?
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
I didn't include screwed in covers in post 12, but I agree that many times the access is in a bed room closet with a screwed on grill or drywall or like one time it wound up in the back of a kitchen cabinet behind the lazy susan, talk about a very upset plumber when the pump failed, even seen a few that you had to access through the crawl space:rant:
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
stickboy1375
Senior Member
- Location
- Litchfield, CT
Faceless GFCI.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
I get the feeling some people think the GFCI needs to be within site or in same room as the tub.
Readily accessible and within site are two different things. If the branch circuit breaker is GFCI type that should be acceptable location for the GFCI. 240.24(A) says overcurrent devices shall be readily accessible.
Readily accessible and within site are two different things. If the branch circuit breaker is GFCI type that should be acceptable location for the GFCI. 240.24(A) says overcurrent devices shall be readily accessible.
- Status