Commercial JW to Residential Contractor...

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Rock Crusher

Member
Location
Ne. USA
All I've ever done is commercial and industrial work as an apprentice and jw. I want to venture on my own, but most the people I talk to need/want residential stuff done. The basic, (fix an outlet or light, add something here and there), is basically the same. But I want to know it all. Load calculations for a whole house, needing to upsize a panel (if neeed), so on and so forth. I want to do it right and I'm not afraid of reading, or experimenting on my own house.
Any help is welcome and appreciated.
Thank you
 

ceb58

Senior Member
Location
Raeford, NC
But I want to know it all

Good luck with that one.
Going from commercial/industrial to residential is like going from the earth to the moon. They are worlds apart. I know several commercial guys who are good at what they do but if you put them in a residential setting they are lost. And the same holds true for the guys that are strictly residential. But IMOP it is an easier transition from residential to commercial than the other way around. If you want to learn then start with the code book at Art. 210 and have fun.
 

jumper

Senior Member
Do you have any business/contracting experience?

Learning the codes and materiels is easy, not losing your shirt as an owner is different.

A good electrician does not always make a smart business person.
 

Rock Crusher

Member
Location
Ne. USA
I do have business/contracting experience. Just not as an electrician. I'd have help making business/financial decisions, I just want to make sure I do the electrical correct and up to code. I've been reading the appropriate code sections, but am trying to stay focused on residential.
There is also alot of farms around here that are looking for a good motor guy and someone to do control work for grain bins and pivots and such.
I know code is only part of the equation and I've done a little of everything, just not on my own. I've been holding off doing anything until I get contractors license and until I feel comfortable doing a quality job.
Books don't scare me and using my house as a guinea pig doesn't either. I work in an industrial facility now crushing rock, and they will let me mess with broken motors in my off time.
Any of this info help:?
 

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
All I've ever done is commercial and industrial work as an apprentice and jw. I want to venture on my own, but most the people I talk to need/want residential stuff done. The basic, (fix an outlet or light, add something here and there), is basically the same. But I want to know it all. Load calculations for a whole house, needing to upsize a panel (if neeed), so on and so forth. I want to do it right and I'm not afraid of reading, or experimenting on my own house.
Any help is welcome and appreciated.
Thank you


Been there, done that. Glad I did.

I came up through the IBEW and all we did was heavy industrial and large commercial, and that's what our training was about. Our local has a separate program for the residential guys.

I finished top of my class and while we were building a NG turbine peaker, the economy started going sour. I topped out right about then. One of the JIW's started his own business and I hooked up with him doing residential re-mods and light commercial. We did a couple new homes, but we piped them as part of a project. I wasn't happy with some aspects of what my boss was doing and my old boss from the peaker also started his own business and I went to work for him. We did lot's of res. jobs. I still work with him from time to time.

It was quite a culture shock, as it's an entirely different world. Be prepared to go from 'slow down, this ain't a race' to 'run and gun, son!'

Working res may be the first exposure you have with electrical inspectors. When I was doing heavy, I saw two inspectors in 6 or 7 years. With res, nearly every job gets inspected.

Be prepared to work for peanuts compared to IBEW scale.

Be prepared to lose your shirt on the first 3 or 4 re-mods you do.

Be prepared to totally re-think your troubleshooting skills.

Be prepared to get burnt by customers.

Be prepared to have to work in crawl spaces that have cat feces, dead rodents, live spiders and broken glass in the sand you have to crawl through.

Be prepared to work in attics that can easily get to 140 degrees.

Be prepared to buy a bunch of new tools.

When I decided to start working res, most of my pals from my local said they would get out of the trade before they 'lowered themselves' to working res. The only exposure they had to it was bad, so they came to bear hatred for it.

The good part is that you don't forget your industrial skills and always have that to fall back on. Plus, once you get the hang of it, res can be good work. It's usually a decent environment, it's usually clean, you can wear shorts, T-shirts and jogging shoes if you want and for the most part res is very, very safe.

I'm glad I learned the res side. It rounded me out. I worked with control systems before I came into the apprenticeship, so one of my mottos is '5 to 5000 volts, AC, DC, power, control and data'.

But my fave, no matter what the setting, is troubleshooting. There is plenty of that in res and light commercial.
 
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Rock Crusher

Member
Location
Ne. USA
My business/contracting experience is from phone/catv/networking, basically low voltage stuff. So dealing with residential customers and their homes isn't going to be new to me.
It's the fact that, like you said, the economy going 'sour' that is promtping me to venture off on my own. And there seems to be a lot of opportunities up around where I live. ie. controls, motors, residential...
I'm not afraid of hard work, always being told to slow down on commercial and industrial, I need the residential experience or help from someone who has it. Atleast for a bit. I've even thought about working for a residential contractor, but they don't like being used. Understandable.
I like your post K8MHZ, thank you for all the input.
BNI Books looks to have some good books and references for me to get. Any other thoughts or suggestions are always welcome.
 

jusme123

Senior Member
Location
NY
Occupation
JW
Good luck with that one.
Going from commercial/industrial to residential is like going from the earth to the moon. They are worlds apart. I know several commercial guys who are good at what they do but if you put them in a residential setting they are lost. And the same holds true for the guys that are strictly residential. But IMOP it is an easier transition from residential to commercial than the other way around. If you want to learn then start with the code book at Art. 210 and have fun.

Are you sure you stated that properly?
 

Gac66610

Senior Member
Location
Kansas
Are you sure you stated that properly?

Sat here for about 15 minutes before starting this, cause i dont want to ruffle any feathers.
IMO he stated correctly, when i do estimates on residential work a builder brings a copy of the print, about 49 out of 50 have nothing electrical drawn on it.
When working on any residential all i use the plans for is to see which way the door swings are.
I know commercial is hard, labor intensive work, but all the plans (that i have seen) show where all boxes are to be placed, lighting, outlet, switches and for the most part
how each circuit is connected together, even which panel down the the breaker number to terminate.

I was asked once how i know where to put boxes on a (residential) job, went out to my truck grabbed a code book said "here's my blueprint"
 

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
Sat here for about 15 minutes before starting this, cause i dont want to ruffle any feathers.
IMO he stated correctly, when i do estimates on residential work a builder brings a copy of the print, about 49 out of 50 have nothing electrical drawn on it.
When working on any residential all i use the plans for is to see which way the door swings are.
I know commercial is hard, labor intensive work, but all the plans (that i have seen) show where all boxes are to be placed, lighting, outlet, switches and for the most part
how each circuit is connected together, even which panel down the the breaker number to terminate.

I was asked once how i know where to put boxes on a (residential) job, went out to my truck grabbed a code book said "here's my blueprint"

Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention that. Usually there are no electrical drawings for res work. Once the walls are up, you just walk around with a broad tip Sharpie and mark the studs where outlets are supposed to go. Make sure you use an arrow to pointing to the side of the stud desired, or you may end up too wide on receptacle spacing.

You usually have to guess about counter top receptacle height and where the refrigerator is going.

Prints would be so nice.....
 

Gac66610

Senior Member
Location
Kansas
nervermind

Did a comm job one time print only showed one outlet on about an eight ft counter top
Had to call my inspector to ask about it, he said all I have to do is follow the print
I asked him "so I don't have to follow code on counter top plugs?"
 

ramsy

Roger Ruhle dba NoFixNoPay
Location
LA basin, CA
Occupation
Service Electrician 2020 NEC
All I've ever done is commercial and industrial work as an apprentice and jw. I want to venture on my own,..
The OP may be invited to see how Municipal inspectors become Priests.

See inspector perform Exorcism on Permit-holding vermin; weather side-working JW, Owner-builder employee, DIY, or unlicensed contractor.

Regardless of lawful R3 or U zoning, or proving minor-work limits; a municipal Exorcism of vermin need no basis in law. While attorneys & insurances take everyone's money, US case precedent is united against unlicensed contractors, denying their insurance claims, their legal hearing, or collection efforts.

JW's can do side work, but if anybody finds out, they work for free -- regardless of future-licensing intentions.
 
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Rock Crusher

Member
Location
Ne. USA
Have you looked at Mike Holt's books and DVD's? I've passed my master's test using his exam prep book. He has books for your application as well.

I have looked at his website and I am going to use his books and dvd's for my masters test. But the BNI version of the particular book I'm looking for is about half as much. And if it isn't what I think it is, they said I can return it.

...JW's can do side work, but if anybody finds out, they work for free -- regardless of future-licensing intentions.

I'm getting my masters license, so the JW doing side work, will not be an issue. I was just posting about the transision from Comm/Ind to Res. And now I have my answers.
Thank you all for you input:thumbsup:
 

ritelec

Senior Member
Location
Jersey
I was just posting about the transision from Comm/Ind to Res. And now I have my answers.
Thank you all for you input:thumbsup:


Not yet............I miss the industrial/commercial.......residentially .........be neat and clean (drop clothes)........there are troubleshooting scenarios which could be fun and challenging, don't overthink them. Watch out in attics, wear
kneepads, You WILL blow out your knees on the joists. Also watch for opening wiring while climbing around up there (as you do commercially sticking your head in hung ceilings). Take extra care not to fall thru or put your foot through
the ceiling. Make idiot check of what tools you went in the attic with that you come back out with them. Keep your hands as clean as possible as you will mess ceilings and walls. Watch for dragging in mudd and dirt on your shoes. Carry asmall tub of quick dry spackle on your truck. Don't go crazy with those long feeler bits. Cut and patch channels to get through walls and ceilings as not to make "railroad tracks". Troubleshooting...look for lost neutral a service.
Troubleshooting... Look for jiggley ceiling fans. Use a ladder to get height....not the furniture. Also use a ladder to protect your rotator cuffs. There are a few more helpful hints, but lots will come from experience and mistakes.
Also.......try to get the misconception out of your head that the Miss or Mrs. might be interested in getting alittle more than electric work done.

Good Luck
 
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