Anybody used ToolMex motors??

[milemaker13]

I have a couple intake fans that have motors made by ToolMex. Both are 3hp, 3ph 480, premium effecency. When we start them they just blow the o/ls. Smoke the starters a little too. I went up on the roof to check them since we hired out the instalation. Spins free and wired correctly.

Any ideas what the problem could be? Doesn't seem to be any obvious reason this is happining. Thanks-

 

[milemaker13]

As far as I can figure it seems like I got 2 bad motors from the same batch...

Except all motor windings ohm out the same (2.2). Both motors, all exactly the same so it seems unlikely that they are miswired themselves...

Even if my fan rotation is incorrect (I can't check it yet cuz it won't spin long enuff for me to see them) I don't think that would cause my problem.

 

[Jraef]

What kind of fans? If this is a variable air volume (VAV) system with dampers, you would probably need to be starting the fans with the dampers CLOSED, not open. In a centrifugal fan, load = flow. No flow, no load; full flow, full load. Many squirrel cage type centrifugal blowers cannot be started wide open, it puts too much load on the motor and they stall, which would trip the OLR and possibly make things smoke. The dampers would need to be closed until the motor reaches full speed.

Smoke is never good by the way, don't do it again until you figure this out or you may end up buying the motors.

 

[milemaker13]

These are just open ended intake fans, mounted on the roof. Should only draw 5 amps or so. Now, these are 12 lead motors, vs the standard 9 lead motors I am used to. Anything there?

Everything has smoke... The problems occur when you let it out! :slaphead:

 

[hurk27]

These are just open ended intake fans, mounted on the roof. Should only draw 5 amps or so. Now, these are 12 lead motors, vs the standard 9 lead motors I am used to. Anything there?

Everything has smoke... The problems occur when you let it out! :slaphead:

yes make sure they are wired for delta not Y, we get many 12 lead motors and if you dont use the reduce current starting system you don't need the Y starting.

See HERE

 

[Jraef]

These are just open ended intake fans, mounted on the roof.

Damper / vane actuator may be on the outlet side.

Another possibility that occurred to me, any chance that the fans are already back-spinning when you go to start them? That can happen if there is some other system pumping air into the building or on roof top units, sometimes it's just the rising heated air. If they are spinning backward when you energize them, the acceleration time gets a lot longer and it may be too long, especially if it's an open system like I said before where the fans are fully loaded once they begin turning the correct direction.

Should only draw 5 amps or so. Now, these are 12 lead motors, vs the standard 9 lead motors I am used to. Anything there?

Maybe, as hurk27 said. But if it was wired in Wye instead of Delta, it would initially be drawing LESS current, not more because of the effective voltage reduction. However the torque would be insufficient so it would EVENTUALLY stall and then current would rise, but it might take a few minutes. From the way you described it I was under the impression this was happening relatively quickly.

 

[milemaker13]

Yes, very quickly. I temped in a blower to each of these starters and it ran fine, so I know my old starters are good. I am also having the exact issue with a 3rd motor this contractor installed. This one runs on a VFD so it took a little longer for me to say there was a problem... Not sure the brand but lets talk about how these may be wired...

They wired in the whip on these 3 motors, but I checked and it looked correct according to the motor nameplate (I'll check again in a few minutes). Can these motors be wired 'correctly' but wrong? How would I determine if it was wye or delta? I am in groups of 4. We are running at 480v.

 

[milemaker13]

I just looked at the info hurk posted... I gotta head up on the roof. I don't think that it looked anything like that. I'll be back!:thumbsup:

 

[milemaker13]

So apon closer inspection today these are standard 9 lead motors... but the plates show groups of 4 for hi volts. Seems like a typo, like the little connecting lines just got continued thru all the #s, so it shows groups of 4. I'm gonna try this...

 

[Jraef]

hmy:
In a 9 lead motor, there should NEVER be any leads connected in groups of 4!!!!!

 

[milemaker13]

Yes! You are correct ,Sir! The plates on 3 seperate motors from TOOLMEX are misprinted. The installers put these 3 whips on just following the plate diagram. I put them back to std 9 lead and everything is fine. What a day!:jawdrop:

 

[Jraef]

Yes! You are correct ,Sir! The plates on 3 seperate motors from TOOLMEX are misprinted. The installers put these 3 whips on just following the plate diagram. I put them back to std 9 lead and everything is fine. What a day!:jawdrop:

Note to self... TOOLMEX = nincompoop motor mfrs.

Glad you were able to find it.