Generator panels....

[chevyx92]

If a customer has a little 5500 Watt portable generator and the want to have it setup to feed the existing main panel during an outage, is there any code that says you have to have a "Generator Panel" per say with selected loads that the generator will feed? I do know that it is common practice to do so but wondered if actually required. Reason I ask is customer wants to use one of these universal mechaincal interlocks on the existing panel and not have a seperate generator panel. http://www.interlockkit.com/squareDmain01.htm
Is it legal to do it this way with no seperate generator panel, I mean there is a potential for a small generator to be running and trying to run an electric range or dryer etc.. in this senario. Thoughts?

 

[ceb58]

If a customer has a little 5500 Watt portable generator and the want to have it setup to feed the existing main panel during an outage, is there any code that says you have to have a "Generator Panel" per say with selected loads that the generator will feed? I do know that it is common practice to do so but wondered if actually required. Reason I ask is customer wants to use one of these universal mechaincal interlocks on the existing panel and not have a seperate generator panel. http://www.interlockkit.com/squareDmain01.htm
Is it legal to do it this way with no seperate generator panel, I mean there is a potential for a small generator to be running and trying to run an electric range or dryer etc.. in this senario. Thoughts?

Completely legal

Manual Transfer Equipment.​

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Where manual transferequipment is used, an optional standby system shall haveadequate capacity and rating for the supply of all equipmentintended to be operated at one time. The user of theoptional standby system shall be permitted to select the​

load connected to the system.

 

[goldstar]

We've gone around with this several times here in the forum. A few things you should be aware of :

1) If a complete breaker panel (with the kit factory installed) is provided by a manufacturer that panel will usually be UL Listed. When you buy these interlock kits and install them yourself, even though they are a safer way to go than having a HO try some weird thing on their own, they come with the caveat UL Tested with that specific panel.

2) When you install these devices you will usually need the top two spaces in the upper right hand corner for a 2-P 20 or 2-P 30 breaker (depending on your generator power outlet configuration). That means you'll have to have the capability of moving the existing breakers to another location. Make sure you have the space before selling the job.

3) Find a diplomatic way to tell your customer that while using this interlock kit, it gives them the capability to operate practically anything in their house during a utility power outage but if they turn on their 40 amp double wall oven they're an idiot.:slaphead:

 

[jwelectric]

Also let them know if the receptacle on the generator is GFCI protected they will have even greater problems

 

[goldstar]

Good point !!! One would ask "Why would you GFI protect a 30 amp, 240 volt receptacle?" But some generators are built that way.

 

[ron]

You will need to rewire the generator to remove the N-G bond if it is used to power the panel, since it is not switching the neutral.

 

[augie47]

You will need to rewire the generator to remove the N-G bond if it is used to power the panel, since it is not switching the neutral.

I wonder how often this is ever taken into consideration on a small portable generator.
(there is one at house and I have never bothered to check )

 

[ceb58]

Good point !!! One would ask "Why would you GFI protect a 30 amp, 240 volt receptacle?" But some generators are built that way.

590.6 (A)(3)Receptacles on 15-kW or less Portable Generators.

All 15- and20-ampere, 125- and 250-volt receptacles, includingthose that are part of a portable generator, used in adamp or wet location shall comply with 406.9(A) and(B). Listed cord sets or devices incorporating listedground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnelidentified for portable use shall be permitted for use with15-kW or less portable generators manufactured or remanufactured​

prior to January 1, 2011.

Thats why.

 

[jwelectric]

From the UL White Book FTCN

GENERAL This category covers internal-combustion-engine-driven generators rated 15 kW or less, 250 V or less, which are provided only with receptacle outlets for the ac output circuits. The generators may incorporate alternating- or direct-current generator sections for supplying energy to battery-charging circuits.
When a portable generator is used to supply a building or structure wiring system:

1. The generator is considered a separately derived system in accordance with ANSI/NFPA 70, "National Electrical Code" (NEC).​

2. The generator is intended to be connected through permanently installed Listed transfer equipment that switches all conductors other than the equipment grounding conductor.​

3. The frame of a Listed generator is connected to the equipment-grounding conductor and the grounded (neutral) conductor of the generator. When properly connected to a premises or structure wiring system, the portable generator will be connected to the premises or structure grounding electrode for its ground reference.​

4. Portable generators used other than to power building or structure wiring systems are intended to be connected to ground if required by the NEC.​

 

[electricmanscott]

What panel are you getting the interlock for? Sq D has their own version for half the cost. Id it's a newer panel that might be the way to go. Either way I'd do the kit over the panel unless the existing panel is garbage.

 

[Rampage_Rick]

Here's info about Square D's own kit with part numbers: http://members.rennlist.org/warren/SQDinterlockkit.pdf

 

[stew]

The kits made by Iterlockit are being turned down by inspectors in washington . They are ul tested but are not listed for use with anyones specific panel. If the install is inspected here it wont pass even though these kits are very good for this appication.The only add on kits that will pass are the manufacturers add on kiy such as the one Siemans has for thier panels.

 

[liquidtite]

Also let them know if the receptacle on the generator is GFCI protected they will have even greater problems

how would this creat a problem

 

[liquidtite]

also if its a house that falls under 2008 nec and has afci ocps you will have to relocate them to the generater panel