Wiring My First Hot Tub

[suemarkp]

I don't think the case of filing the tub with water makes it a continuous load. It has to be under typical use that it runs at full load for 3 hours or more. DO you always fill your tub with water before using it?

Anything can be left on for a long time by accident or have a special long first time startup sequence. Just like things can occasionally get sprayed with water, that doesn't necessarily make it a wet area.

 

[Hv&Lv]

here is a link. look at page 43 and according to 680.9, the conductors for heaters are to be 125%. 48 amps with everything running, and the heat at 125%. if you add 1.25 for the motor, it is just a hair over 50

http://www.bullfrogspas.com/uploads/files/42_bullfrog_manual_2011-English.pdf

 

[kwired]

I don't think the case of filing the tub with water makes it a continuous load. It has to be under typical use that it runs at full load for 3 hours or more. DO you always fill your tub with water before using it?

Anything can be left on for a long time by accident or have a special long first time startup sequence. Just like things can occasionally get sprayed with water, that doesn't necessarily make it a wet area.

Well .... I don't sit in it with no water in it:happyno: But I don't drain it after every use either.

There is some intermittent duty equipment that you can't accidently leave on for long periods or it likely is done for. Hot tub motors are not intermittent duty motors though.

 

[liquidtite]

I did not see any mention of a full size EGC in the wiring instructions. If I find that to be the case I guess I will have to run THHN in conduit.

I thought the emergency shut off was exempted from S/F dwelling but that a disconnect is still required.

Once I see the site I will know better on the conduit/flex/entrance question. The owner seemed to indicate that the tub will be a ways from the house so UG conduit is the only way to get there. I'm still stumped on how to transition from UG conduit to the entrance which seems to be just a couple of inches off the ground.

use pvc then change over to flex with the pvc coupling that has a threaded end on it so u can change to liquidtite entering the bottom of the unit. also some inspectore do not want you to exit the house with an uninsulated ground nm you mite have to box it of in the house and run pvc through the sill plate or foundation and switch over to thhn/thhwn befor exiting house

 

[Cow]

I'd still run a neutral out there, required or not. It shouldn't add a whole lot more cost to the job when you price it, and the owner will appreciate it when he changes tubs down the road to something that needs a neutral. It shouldn't be a hard sell...

 

[stickboy1375]

I'd still run a neutral out there, required or not. It shouldn't add a whole lot more cost to the job when you price it, and the owner will appreciate it when he changes tubs down the road to something that needs a neutral. It shouldn't be a hard sell...

I do it just because every time I didn't, it magically required one when the tub was delivered.

 

[K_Buz]

I do it just because every time I didn't, it magically required one when the tub was delivered.

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[stickboy1375]

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I'm just an employee, that I could care less about, I just dislike doing things twice. I have way better things I could be doing.

 

[Cow]

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You don't bid your hot tub jobs for 3 wire, even when they don't need a neutral? You're in such a competetive market, you'd have to bid this as 2 wire just to ensure you got the job? If that's the case, I'm sorry things are so tough for you. Personally I wouldn't even ask the homeowner, I'd just bid it as 3 wire.

I hate when things bite me in the butt and I hate doing things twice even if I'm getting paid for it, so I'll run a neutral. Just my opinion of course....

 

[stickboy1375]

You don't bid your hot tub jobs for 3 wire, even when they don't need a neutral? You're in such a competetive market, you'd have to bid this as 2 wire just to ensure you got the job? If that's the case, I'm sorry things are so tough for you. Personally I wouldn't even ask the homeowner, I'd just bid it as 3 wire.

I hate when things bite me in the butt and I hate doing things twice even if I'm getting paid for it, so I'll run a neutral. Just my opinion of course....

Most customers are just going to call and ask "how much to wire a hot tub?" anyway, so yeah, I agree... moot point in 3-wire vs 4-wire hookups...

 

[kwired]

You don't bid your hot tub jobs for 3 wire, even when they don't need a neutral? You're in such a competetive market, you'd have to bid this as 2 wire just to ensure you got the job? If that's the case, I'm sorry things are so tough for you. Personally I wouldn't even ask the homeowner, I'd just bid it as 3 wire.

I hate when things bite me in the butt and I hate doing things twice even if I'm getting paid for it, so I'll run a neutral. Just my opinion of course....

It also doesn't make you look bad when you have to ask for more because you didn't realize it was going to need a neutral. Customer that doesn't know any better either way just assumes you did your job. People don't like to be given a price then some time in middle of job get hit with someone wanting more money. This not only applies to electircians but they also expect this from plumbers, auto repair shop, HVAC service tech, building contractors, etc.

 

[Cow]

It also doesn't make you look bad when you have to ask for more because you didn't realize it was going to need a neutral. Customer that doesn't know any better either way just assumes you did your job. People don't like to be given a price then some time in middle of job get hit with someone wanting more money. This not only applies to electircians but they also expect this from plumbers, auto repair shop, HVAC service tech, building contractors, etc.

Exactly. Customers don't need to know every little detail, they just want to see it work. They'll never know they spent a few more pennies for an extra wire in a cable, that'll save them in the future one day, but they sure as hell will remember the guy that asked for more money to rewire a tub.

Now which guy will most likely get the call for future work? The one asking for changeorders for every little thing or the one who added a few dollars to the bid for a neutral the homeowner shouldn't even have to worry about?

I'm a service guy too, so I see what does and doesn't work down the road, and do my best to steer clear of future headaches.

 

[K_Buz]

If the customer supplied the specs for the tub then I would bid it for what is spec'ed. If the customer didn't have the specs at the time of the bid, I would bid it for a 3 wire.

And yes, its VERY competitve around here, I could easily see $30 bucks being a deal breaker.

 

[kwired]

If the customer supplied the specs for the tub then I would bid it for what is spec'ed. If the customer didn't have the specs at the time of the bid, I would bid it for a 3 wire.

And yes, its VERY competitve around here, I could easily see $30 bucks being a deal breaker.

If $30 breaks the deal, I don't want the job. If that is a problem before the job even starts then what else will be a problem during the progression of the project? Sitting at home making nothing is still more income than losing money.

 

[K_Buz]

While I know what you are saying and agree, customers see the bottom line price and MOST do not take the time to see what is being included in the quote. This is true of resi and commercial. If I can cut my initial price down because the customer provided the specs I will do that.

Let me ask you a question...

How far do you take this? Do you quote #6's even though the tub is only speced at 50 A? Some tubs require a different size wire than what NEC would require. You can't plan for everything...especially when you are getting the information from a customer before you see the actual equipment.

I have never had a customer get upset at me for a change order due to incorrect specs. They have been upset, but not at me.

 

[kwired]

While I know what you are saying and agree, customers see the bottom line price and MOST do not take the time to see what is being included in the quote. This is true of resi and commercial. If I can cut my initial price down because the customer provided the specs I will do that.

Let me ask you a question...

How far do you take this? Do you quote #6's even though the tub is only speced at 50 A? Some tubs require a different size wire than what NEC would require. You can't plan for everything...especially when you are getting the information from a customer before you see the actual equipment.

I have never had a customer get upset at me for a change order due to incorrect specs. They have been upset, but not at me.

I have to admit on small projects like this around here $30 is not going to break the deal. If it does you don't want the job.

Not very often will I run into situation where I will be installing a branch circuit to a hot tub where the tub is not already there either, unless maybe a new construction project where they are planning for a hot tub at some point - and if there is no idea what the specs of the unit may be you are better off putting in a large enough raceway that you can pull whatever is necessary when the time comes.

 

[stickboy1375]

I find it funny how people can afford a hot tub, but not afford to have it wired. Im glad we stay away from finically challenged neighborhoods.

 

[kwired]

I find it funny how people can afford a hot tub, but not afford to have it wired. Im glad we stay away from finically challenged neighborhoods.

Problem is they have been saving up to finally make that purchase and have no idea what it will take to connect it. They think they will just plug it in when it gets there, and when they see there is no cord they are up a creek without a paddle.