Johnson Perpetual Motor

[bob]

Looking at these plans, I doubt that only 1 out of a 1000 ordinary Joe's could build it.
This has already been said, but if it worked there would be a MFG pumping these things
out for sale to the entire world. They would not be selling plans for $49.

 

[Besoeker]

Nothing more than an argument for argument's sake.

Not an argument.
Just nothing more than presenting information.

 

[Besoeker]

Looking at these plans, I doubt that only 1 out of a 1000 ordinary Joe's could build it.
This has already been said, but if it worked there would be a MFG pumping these things out for sale to the entire world. They would not be selling plans for $49.

Indeed.
A subtle, or maybe not so subtle, modification of Howard Johnson's patents is changing the permanent magnet to perpetual magnet.
Sales speak at its worst.
And the hectoring manner of the presentation just grates horribly with with me.

 

[kwired]

Indeed.
A subtle, or maybe not so subtle, modification of Howard Johnson's patents is changing the permanent magnet to perpetual magnet.
Sales speak at its worst.
And the hectoring manner of the presentation just grates horribly with with me.

[h=3]per?pet?u?al/pərˈpeCHo͞oəl/
[/h]

Adjective:	Never ending or changing.
Noun:	A perpetual plant, esp. a hybrid rose.
Synonyms:	everlasting - eternal - perennial - constant - permanent

[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]

Based on this definition I found through Google - a permant magnet and a perpetual magnet are the same thing:huh:

 

[Besoeker]

Based on this definition I found through Google - a permant magnet and a perpetual magnet are the same thing:huh:

Similar, meanings I agree.
But different nuances and, as a rule, you wouldn't use them interchangeably.
As an example, you wouldn't say permanent motion in place of perpetual motion.

 

[iwire]

Similar, meanings I agree.
But different nuances and, as a rule, you wouldn't use them interchangeably.
As an example, you wouldn't say permanent motion in place of perpetual motion.

Nothing more than an argument for argument's sake.

One of TMs best posts.

 

[kwired]

Similar, meanings I agree.
But different nuances and, as a rule, you wouldn't use them interchangeably.
As an example, you wouldn't say permanent motion in place of perpetual motion.

So what is the difference, the dictionary definitions are similar enough that there really is no difference. Has to be one of those things that has different meaning for a specific application.

 

[K8MHZ]

So what is the difference, the dictionary definitions are similar enough that there really is no difference. Has to be one of those things that has different meaning for a specific application.

No, it's just our language. We have many words that mean the same thing. Go to synonym.com and you will find that permanent is a sense 1 synonym for perpetual.

 

[kwired]

No, it's just our language. We have many words that mean the same thing. Go to synonym.com and you will find that permanent is a sense 1 synonym for perpetual.

But what is the differnce between a permanent magnet and a perpetual magnet - other than the names are spelled differently.

The meanings of permanent and perpetual in the dictionary are close enough to the same thing that I see no difference without more technical explanation to a particular application.

 

[charlie b]

But what is the difference between a permanent magnet and a perpetual magnet - other than the names are spelled differently?

That is easy! The answer is $49.97. :happyyes:

 

[charlie b]

One of TMs best posts.

A category in which there are a number of top-flight contenders! :happyyes:

 

[kwired]

That is easy! The answer is $49.97. :happyyes:

I should have known that - sometimes the obvious is easy to overlook.

 

[LMAO]

For some reason I have been getting a ad on all the websites I have been going to that leads me to this "Johnson Motor". Probably because all of my cookies in my temp folder have something to do with electrical.

Anyway, the actual device is probably a scam but after I looked up this motor, I found that the technology is actually somehow legitimate. Has anyone ever heard of these things? Is this like the "bloom box"? That device that is great but too expensive to build?

I have a strong science background but this is kind of over my head after you really look into it....

Here is the link:

http://www.johnsonmotor.org/rw/index.php

PS> I know this thing is probably a scam because it says "The device that your electric company doesn't want you to know about". In reality, the electric company wants you to use less electricity. Its not like they make hoards of money, they can't even turn a profit and always need subsidization from the government.

:lolerpetual motion motor! :lol:

 

[K8MHZ]

But what is the differnce between a permanent magnet and a perpetual magnet - other than the names are spelled differently.

The meanings of permanent and perpetual in the dictionary are close enough to the same thing that I see no difference without more technical explanation to a particular application.

Of course, there isn't one. The scam revolves around the assertion that they somehow are different, and if you don't use real perpetual magnets it's your own fault the generator won't work.

This has been around for years, and to date no one has made one that works.

From Wiki:

Howard Robert Johnson developed a permanent magnet motor and, on April 24, 1979, received U.S. Patent 4,151,431

So, in a few weeks the patent will be 33 years old and no one has made a single generator that worked and stood up to even the most meager of testing.

And after 33 years people are still spending money to get the plans. The patent, part of which is on Wiki, is public info and anyone can get a copy of it.

 

[kwired]

Of course, there isn't one. The scam revolves around the assertion that they somehow are different, and if you don't use real perpetual magnets it's your own fault the generator won't work.

This has been around for years, and to date no one has made one that works.

From Wiki:



So, in a few weeks the patent will be 33 years old and no one has made a single generator that worked and stood up to even the most meager of testing.

And after 33 years people are still spending money to get the plans. The patent, part of which is on Wiki, is public info and anyone can get a copy of it.

So it is kind of like me hooking up my own capacitor to my homes electrical system, and still not saving a dime on energy charges - I think I get it.

 

[K8MHZ]

So it is kind of like me hooking up my own capacitor to my homes electrical system, and still not saving a dime on energy charges - I think I get it.

Good. I'll send you a bill.

What people don't realize is that a patent is not proof that a device works. It's only a sort of license based upon originality or the first registration of an idea. A patent is nothing more than a numerical notation of some paperwork giving the author of that paperwork certain legal rights.

When you file for a patent, all that is required is that no one has filed a similar patent before you did. There is no requisite that the device works. I know that for a fact as I worked in R&D and saw the patent process up close and personal. When we built a paint stripping / stripper filtration system that removed all the solids from the stripping fluid, making it re-usable, we never had to prove it worked to the patent office. We were never required to build a prototype. All the patent office and the attorney cared about was drawings and money.

 

[Besoeker]

So what is the difference, the dictionary definitions are similar enough that there really is no difference. Has to be one of those things that has different meaning for a specific application.

The Johnson motor patent numbers were cited on the presentation. As far as I could tell, none mentioned perpetual magnets.
I don't suppose for one moment that substituting perpetual for permanent in the context of the sales spiel for the product plans being touted was accidental.
There is a different connotation.
The cable was permanently connected to the 400V supply.
The cable was perpetually connected to the 400V supply.

 

[kwired]

The Johnson motor patent numbers were cited on the presentation. As far as I could tell, none mentioned perpetual magnets.
I don't suppose for one moment that substituting perpetual for permanent in the context of the sales spiel for the product plans being touted was accidental.
There is a different connotation.
The cable was permanently connected to the 400V supply.
The cable was perpetually connected to the 400V supply.

Which is exactly why I decided to look up the meaning of perpetual, I figured there was something different that I may not have been seeing - then after seeing the definition of perpetual and the synonym list contained permanent.... now here we are. Perpetual seems to give me a negative mind set - guess that is one reason why I will not be putting up the $49.00 or whatever it was they are asking for. $49.97 I guess

 

[Besoeker]

Which is exactly why I decided to look up the meaning of perpetual, I figured there was something different that I may not have been seeing - then after seeing the definition of perpetual and the synonym list contained permanent.... now here we are. Perpetual seems to give me a negative mind set - guess that is one reason why I will not be putting up the $49.00 or whatever it was they are asking for. $49.97 I guess

We make permanent magnet motors.
Wonder what it would do for our sales prospects if we emulated the sales patter at the start of this thread and started to promote them as perpetual magnet motors.........

 

[kwired]

We make permanent magnet motors.
Wonder what it would do for our sales prospects if we emulated the sales patter at the start of this thread and started to promote them as perpetual magnet motors.........

I can only think of hearing the word perpetual followed by liar. Don't know if I have heard it in many other applications except now perpetual magnet and perpetual motor - gives these products good credibility---NOT.