4 11/16 square box for RGS

[K8MHZ]

The 4 11/16 boxes are cheaper, have a larger volume, have more KO's, and are easier to install than the Cast boxes. Unless there is a spec requiring cast the decision seems pretty easy. If you don't want to cut and thread just use threadless connectors.

You do know that I was talking about 4 11/16 cast boxes, don't you?

I don't know if the OP realizes that when electricians talk about '4 and 11' boxes they are talking about stamped boxes only. We don't know the application, but if this rigid is going to be exposed and in a wet location would stamped boxes still be a good choice? I wouldn't use them there and it's good to know that there is a cast box with the same or similar dimensions as a 4 and 11 stamped box.

 

[infinity]

You do know that I was talking about 4 11/16 cast boxes, don't you?

I don't know if the OP realizes that when electricians talk about '4 and 11' boxes they are talking about stamped boxes only. We don't know the application, but if this rigid is going to be exposed and in a wet location would stamped boxes still be a good choice? I wouldn't use them there and it's good to know that there is a cast box with the same or similar dimensions as a 4 and 11 stamped box.

I wouldn't refer to any cast box as a 4 11/16" box. As you've mentioned sparkies call 4 11/16" boxes the ones in the photo in post #13.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

What would they not be an expensive option for?

I think we covered all the bases for you, except one. That is a 'zero clearance' hub, another way to connect rigid to a box.

Did we not answer your questions?

I think we covered your choices for a 4 11/16 box and I think we did a pretty good job covering every feasible way to connect rigid to a box legally. Is that not the info you were looking for?

What do you mean???" What would they not be an expensive option for?".

 

[K8MHZ]

What do you mean???" What would they not be an expensive option for?".

To re-phrase, if wouldn't consider them for rigid, what would you use them for?

Not knowing your application, it's really not clear if the use and expense of a cast box would be prudent. I have used them, so there are applications that justify the expense.

People are making many assumptions on this thread with their recommendations. The majority are assuming that a stamped box would be suitable for the purpose, but you have not mentioned the purpose. That is why I tried to cover as many bases as possible.

As an industrial electrician I have found that if the installation requires rigid, regular stamped boxes are not used. Using a thin walled stamped box on a rigid application is a compromise of the physical integrity of the installation. Typically you will see either cast boxes or Hoffman type boxes. If stamped boxes are suitable for the installation, it makes no sense that EMT would not be suitable.

I am just trying to help you out as much as I can without knowing the particulars.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

OK here is my open book test

OK here is my open book test

Connecting RGS to box with knock outs:

1. THreadless connector( but then pipe has to be cut off where it is threaded)
2. Threaded end of RGS directly into box/
3. Myers Hub
4. Chase nipple

For hubbed boxes:

I gueess since all these fittings/connectors above are threaded they can be used, or just the threded end of the conduit.

DO I get an A???

 

[infinity]

Spec not withstanding, what type of j-box would you use for 3/4" & 1" RGS?

As an industrial electrician I have found that if the installation requires rigid, regular stamped boxes are not used. Using a thin walled stamped box on a rigid application is a compromise of the physical integrity of the installation. Typically you will see either cast boxes or Hoffman type boxes. If stamped boxes are suitable for the installation, it makes no sense that EMT would not be suitable.

IMO you're making a assumption with stating that RMC usage would almost require the use of cast boxes. I've seen many applications where the wiring method requested was RMC but the boxes could be regular old 1900 and 4 11/16" boxes. I would agree with you that it doesn't make much sense.

One other thing to note, IMO many times RMC is specified because it threaded together and that boxes are connected with a locknut. Using a threadless connector kind of defeats the purpose of that aspect of installing RMC in the first place.

 

[K8MHZ]

Connecting RGS to box with knock outs:

1. THreadless connector( but then pipe has to be cut off where it is threaded)
2. Threaded end of RGS directly into box/
3. Myers Hub
4. Chase nipple

For hubbed boxes:

I gueess since all these fittings/connectors above are threaded they can be used, or just the threded end of the conduit.

DO I get an A???

You missed the zero clearance connector. Rare, but very handy.

I don't get this, 'but then pipe has to be cut off where it is threaded'. The pipe will be cut off to the desired length, no matter what means of connection you are using....hopefully.

The object of the hub is to not to have to use an additional connector. It's meant for threaded rigid. Having to use a threadless connector on a hub is pretty poor workmanship, in my opinion.

So, if you can use stamped boxes, why can't you use EMT? That would save a bunch of money, and it seems you are concerned about that.

 

[K8MHZ]

IMO you're making a assumption with stating that RMC usage would almost require the use of cast boxes. I've seen many applications where the wiring method requested was RMC but the boxes could be regular old 1900 and 4 11/16" boxes. I would agree with you that it doesn't make much sense.

One other thing to note, IMO many times RMC is specified because it threaded together and that boxes are connected with a locknut. Using a threadless connector kind of defeats the purpose of that aspect of installing RMC in the first place.

My background is old school heavy industrial. The only time we used stamped boxes was in commercial apps with EMT or MC. Then I went from there to res work for a while and what a whole nuther world that was.

Since we don't know the application, our past experience is just part of the guessing game we are playing. To counter our lack of knowledge, I just figured we could give him all the choices we knew.

That aside, I have never seen an estimator get to choose what type of boxes and fittings were going to be used. Isn't that usually done by an engineer or at least a master electrician before the estimate is even started?

 

[Johnmcca]

The OP was "Is there a 4 11/16 box with hubs that can be used with RGS conduit? Or what would be the equal?"

What stamped box has hubs or an equivalent?

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

My background is old school heavy industrial. The only time we used stamped boxes was in commercial apps with EMT or MC. Then I went from there to res work for a while and what a whole nuther world that was.

Since we don't know the application, our past experience is just part of the guessing game we are playing. To counter our lack of knowledge, I just figured we could give him all the choices we knew.

That aside, I have never seen an estimator get to choose what type of boxes and fittings were going to be used. Isn't that usually done by an engineer or at least a master electrician before the estimate is even started?

Spec indicates what must be used.....FOR ALL MATERIALS pretty much.

 

[iwire]

I have always thought that specifications requiring RMC but allowing stamped steel boxes are ridiculous. In my own view if an area needs RMC due to possible damage issues that same are should get cast boxes.

 

[K8MHZ]

Spec indicates what must be used.....FOR ALL MATERIALS pretty much.

If that's the case, I don't understand the reasoning behind your question.

 

[K8MHZ]

I have always thought that specifications requiring RMC but allowing stamped steel boxes are ridiculous. In my own view if an area needs RMC due to possible damage issues that same are should get cast boxes.

Bingo! And that's the way I was brung up.

 

[jmellc]

I haven't done much rigid in a while & avoided it where possible. It is a hassle to bend and thread. I love it for underground, as I can bury it 6 inches deep. Much less digging and it won't get damaged.

Standard Raco type boxes, 4 inch and 4 11/16 are usually on shelf with KO's up to 1 inch and maybe larger. These boxes are usually cheaper than 6x6 or larger that have no KO's. Cutting KO's kills a lot of time. Use them only when you need larger space. Keep a few compression fittings on hand and maybe a few Ericsons but keep them locked up and hand out as needed. They are costly in small sizes and highway robbery in larger sizes. Threading eqpmt is already on job, I'm sure, so use locknuts and bushings wherever possible. Sealing locknuts are good for some damp locations, Myers hubs for more severe locations. Cast iron FS boxes are available with lots of different hubs and are good for exposure to physical damage. Again, these are costly, last I remember. But they are good for pedestal apps, like a 1 inch RMC pedestal to 1 side of hub and 1 inch RMC raceway into other side. I saw these used a lot where we anchored to flooring molds and they were poured in concrete.

Others here make a good point. You really should get some field experience. Nothing like it. You will get firsthand knowledge of how usable a product is in tight spaces, dim light, no special tools nearby, time pressure on you, etc. We had a guy working with us one summer, an electrical engineering student. He was a tiny guy, about 5 feet tall, 90 pounds. He got a lot of crap jobs, walking ceilings, under platforms, etc. He said when leaving that he learned more that summer than he ever had in class up to that point. I think he'd finished 1st year college, maybe 2nd.

Ask your boss to let you work some nights & Saturdays with a crew. Be a helper to a seasoned electrician. Swallow your pride and don't be afraid to get dirty. You will learn a lot and the guys you work with will respect you no end for doing it. They may ride you awhile, as often happens with newbies, but it will fade away. You may also be able to teach them something about estimating, planning and cost control. Some of them may have no idea how much anything costs. Everyone should get a chance to see things from the other end.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

I haven't done much rigid in a while & avoided it where possible. It is a hassle to bend and thread. I love it for underground, as I can bury it 6 inches deep. Much less digging and it won't get damaged.

Standard Raco type boxes, 4 inch and 4 11/16 are usually on shelf with KO's up to 1 inch and maybe larger. These boxes are usually cheaper than 6x6 or larger that have no KO's. Cutting KO's kills a lot of time. Use them only when you need larger space. Keep a few compression fittings on hand and maybe a few Ericsons but keep them locked up and hand out as needed. They are costly in small sizes and highway robbery in larger sizes. Threading eqpmt is already on job, I'm sure, so use locknuts and bushings wherever possible. Sealing locknuts are good for some damp locations, Myers hubs for more severe locations. Cast iron FS boxes are available with lots of different hubs and are good for exposure to physical damage. Again, these are costly, last I remember. But they are good for pedestal apps, like a 1 inch RMC pedestal to 1 side of hub and 1 inch RMC raceway into other side. I saw these used a lot where we anchored to flooring molds and they were poured in concrete.

Others here make a good point. You really should get some field experience. Nothing like it. You will get firsthand knowledge of how usable a product is in tight spaces, dim light, no special tools nearby, time pressure on you, etc. We had a guy working with us one summer, an electrical engineering student. He was a tiny guy, about 5 feet tall, 90 pounds. He got a lot of crap jobs, walking ceilings, under platforms, etc. He said when leaving that he learned more that summer than he ever had in class up to that point. I think he'd finished 1st year college, maybe 2nd.

Ask your boss to let you work some nights & Saturdays with a crew. Be a helper to a seasoned electrician. Swallow your pride and don't be afraid to get dirty. You will learn a lot and the guys you work with will respect you no end for doing it. They may ride you awhile, as often happens with newbies, but it will fade away. You may also be able to teach them something about estimating, planning and cost control. Some of them may have no idea how much anything costs. Everyone should get a chance to see things from the other end.

I would love to get some field experience but it is just not feasible unless someone lets me work on the weekend....I work for a union contractor so i can't work for them in the field. I make MINIMUM $$$ so I guess I could leave my job to go work in the field but I don't want to leave the union and joining the apprenticeship is a VERY LONG wait. I have good bennies and with a kid on the way that means a lot.....

 

[DARUSA]

why spec require RMC ? For what purpose is the installation? Wet location?Protection for fiscal damage?HCL?

 

[K8MHZ]

I would love to get some field experience but it is just not feasible unless someone lets me work on the weekend....I work for a union contractor so i can't work for them in the field. I make MINIMUM $$$ so I guess I could leave my job to go work in the field but I don't want to leave the union and joining the apprenticeship is a VERY LONG wait. I have good bennies and with a kid on the way that means a lot.....

I don't know how old you are, but I started the IBEW/NJATC apprenticeship when I was 37. I went from $12.50 per hour doing industrial maintenance to $7.40 as a first year apprentice.

It was one of the best things I ever did.

Now the first year apprentii make pretty decent wages. If you are already making minimum $$$ you probably wouldn't have to change your lifestyle much to start the apprenticeship, PLUS you get raises once or twice a year. You should get your bennies the day you start working as an apprentice. I did.

I had been doing electrical work for well over a dozen years before I started the apprenticeship. Wow!!! I couldn't believe how much bad information I had been given and how wrong I was taught to do things. Not all things, though. Some of the stuff I had learned really helped me in the apprenticeship. I did manage to finish #1 in my 40 person class.

You may want to inquire as to the wages, bennies and availability of starting the apprenticeship before you make up your mind that it's not a viable option for you.

 

[jmellc]

I would love to get some field experience but it is just not feasible unless someone lets me work on the weekend....I work for a union contractor so i can't work for them in the field. I make MINIMUM $$$ so I guess I could leave my job to go work in the field but I don't want to leave the union and joining the apprenticeship is a VERY LONG wait. I have good bennies and with a kid on the way that means a lot.....

So because they are a union contractor you can't work in the field too? What kind of nonsense is that? A guy from the office isn't allowed to help in the field, to get first hand experience? Everyone benefits from that, no one loses. What is their thinking?

 

[John120/240]

OK Horsegoer we get that you can't work in the field. Could you hang out on the job

site once a week ? Talk to the guys, learn the nick names for various parts ? Ride the

scissor lift & see how conduit is hung from unistrut ? Or beam clamps ? Get as much

real world experience as the rules allow.

Does anyone else at your firm particpate here at the MH Forum ?

 

[iwire]

Lets end the union discussion before it gets heated.

Any further comments regarding merit shops or union shops will be removed.