Two #2 AWG wires on 1 breaker hole?

[frankft2000]

I saw one installed in a panel to feed another panel, but I don't know what it is called.

They had a lug of some sort that went into the breaker hole and you tightened it down, then it had a spot for 2 wires to hook into it. They had this set up for each phase, so they had a feed coming in from the utility, then jumping back out to the 2nd panel. Note, there was a disconnect under the meter that kept everything fused right.

Anybody seen such a thing?

 

[templdl]

Your question is very vague.
What are the terminals on?
Does the device have a nameplate which lists the terminal capacity as well as torque? It is not uncommon for larger terminals to have the wire size stamped right on it.
If it is a smaller device such as a the smaller size plug on breakers they often have lugs that are listed such that they allow (2) wires under each lug for smaller wire sized.
When it comes to larger devices such as the one that you may be refering to I am not aware of a terminal that allows more than on wire in a hole. If there are (2) wires the device should be provided with a terminal that has (2) holes, one for each wire.

 

[augie47]

I think you may be referring to a "sub feed lug kit". Most manufacturers make these for their plug-in panels and some bolt-in panels
It snaps in like a breaker and has lugs to attach conductors (similar to a feed thru panel), The lug kits are rated for amperage (such as 125 amp or 200 amp)so you need to make sure that the rating is high enough and that the conductors are protected by the main protecting the panel (installed or remote) or that the conductors meet the appropriate tap rule.

 

[frankft2000]

No, I know what a sub feed kit is. Picture this, a main breaker panel. Feed comes into the panel, then jumps to the sub panel. This was done on some sort of lug, just as it entered the breaker hole which only accepts one conductor. What made ma a little worried was that this lug was all metal, and real close to the back of the panel. Picture some sort of twin lug, but instead of a 1/4" hole, it narrowed down to go inside where normally one conductor would go. Is that any clearer?

 

[texie]

No, I know what a sub feed kit is. Picture this, a main breaker panel. Feed comes into the panel, then jumps to the sub panel. This was done on some sort of lug, just as it entered the breaker hole which only accepts one conductor. What made ma a little worried was that this lug was all metal, and real close to the back of the panel. Picture some sort of twin lug, but instead of a 1/4" hole, it narrowed down to go inside where normally one conductor would go. Is that any clearer?

Could it be a standard 2 barrel lug somebody modified to fit in the breaker? I've never heard of such a thing that is factory made, but you never know, learn something new every day. Inquiring minds would love to see a photo.

 

[frankft2000]

Could it be a standard 2 barrel lug somebody modified to fit in the breaker? I've never heard of such a thing that is factory made, but you never know, learn something new every day. Inquiring minds would love to see a photo.

Thats what I am wondering. If someone makes a UL listed lug like that, then I would like to have a couple. If its a modified piece, no way am I going to do that!

 

[templdl]

No, I know what a sub feed kit is. Picture this, a main breaker panel. Feed comes into the panel, then jumps to the sub panel. This was done on some sort of lug, just as it entered the breaker hole which only accepts one conductor. What made ma a little worried was that this lug was all metal, and real close to the back of the panel. Picture some sort of twin lug, but instead of a 1/4" hole, it narrowed down to go inside where normally one conductor would go. Is that any clearer?

Look for either a sub feed or a through feed lug kit then. As I recall the panel would have to be ordered with a through fed lugs where a sub feed lug kit can be installed as a modification.
Again, the OP has supplied little to no information regarding the panel in question and as such any answer that is provide may not actually be applicable to the panel that he has.
We don't have a clue.

 

[frankft2000]

The panel I saw this in was a 200 amp main breaker Semens panel with stab in breakers. I'm not asking how to feed the subpanel, all I'm wondering is if a manufacture made that twin lug sorta thing that went into the main breaker, or if it was made on the job site, which means that it is not UL listed.

 

[frankft2000]

like this

 

[templdl]

View attachment 6790
like this

That sort of looks like a distribution block of some type.
How is the connection made between the block and the load side of the breaker? There appears to be no screw on the distribution block at that point but there are for the cables which enter the top. Is that connection a part of the distribution block? If so I would be concerned that the breaker teminal would be rated for such a connection which the breaker terminal itself would be UL486 listed.

 

[frankft2000]

That sort of looks like a distribution block of some type.
How is the connection made between the block and the load side of the breaker? There appears to be no screw on the distribution block at that point but there are for the cables which enter the top. Is that connection a part of the distribution block? If so I would be concerned that the breaker teminal would be rated for such a connection which the breaker terminal itself would be UL486 listed.

The picture is coming into the main breaker (line side). The load side goes onto the buss bars feeding the rest of the load center. I guess it could be some kind of terminal block, but the whole thing is metal, just like a bolt on lug. I'm getting the feeling this is something somebody made, thats why I can't find any to buy! lol This lug thingy would work nice for parallel runs when paralleing for voltage drop.

 

[John120/240]

View attachment 6790
like this

Might be a gizmo that the local machine shop came up with. What is the shape of the

tang, round, oval, or square that attaches to the main breaker ? Does this tang fit the

contour of the breaker connection ?

 

[hillbilly1]

Probably originally used for motor starter cabinets, one feeder loops between starters.

 

[templdl]

The picture is coming into the main breaker (line side). The load side goes onto the buss bars feeding the rest of the load center. I guess it could be some kind of terminal block, but the whole thing is metal, just like a bolt on lug. I'm getting the feeling this is something somebody made, thats why I can't find any to buy! lol This lug thingy would work nice for parallel runs when paralleing for voltage drop.

Again, you didn't what breaker manufacturer if was. It's almost like let's guess what this is.
This is a guess then that the manufacturer may have had a special terminal designed specifically for that breaker which bolts on to the breaker in a typical fashion. The terminal must be UL listed for installation on that breaker (NEC art 110) to assure that it complies with the heat run tests. The ternimal itself must be UL486 listed. I don't know if you can see any marking but there may be a manufacturer's mark on it with an identification.
The bereaker manufacturer also must assure that the correct electrical clearances are maintained, phase to phase, phase to ground.

 

[kwired]

Sounds like one of these http://www.ilsco.com//TechnicalDrawing//N7784.pdf or something very similar.

 

[templdl]

Sounds like one of these http://www.ilsco.com//TechnicalDrawing//N7784.pdf or something very similar.

That was my first though and I went to the Ilsco web site also. I is a distribution blockof sorts.
But then he says "but the whole thing is metal, just like a bolt on lug." which leads me to believe that it is bolted to the breaker where a terminal would be bolted. That Ilsco block is cable in cable out. But that's what I first thought it was also.

 

[frankft2000]

Again, you didn't what breaker manufacturer if was. It's almost like let's guess what this is.
This is a guess then that the manufacturer may have had a special terminal designed specifically for that breaker which bolts on to the breaker in a typical fashion. The terminal must be UL listed for installation on that breaker (NEC art 110) to assure that it complies with the heat run tests. The ternimal itself must be UL486 listed. I don't know if you can see any marking but there may be a manufacturer's mark on it with an identification.
The bereaker manufacturer also must assure that the correct electrical clearances are maintained, phase to phase, phase to ground.

Read post #8 by me. SEMENS!

 

[templdl]

Read post #8 by me. SEMENS!

I looked at the "Seimens" panel board catalogs and didn't come across any lug connections for use on the livne side of a main breaker as your illustration suggests.
The only one that appears to be similar to the one that your sketch shows is this but the part to be bolted on to the breaker is too wide.

 

[frankft2000]

I looked at the "Seimens" panel board catalogs and didn't come across any lug connections for use on the livne side of a main breaker as your illustration suggests.
The only one that appears to be similar to the one that your sketch shows is this but the part to be bolted on to the breaker is too wide.

It looked just like that lug, except where the mounting hole is, it was smaller and terminated in the breaker hole where a wire normally would be. Now the $100,000 question is was that lug bought someplace, or machined down on site? Usually on this site, if something is available, somebody has seen one and knows exactly what it is, so I'm thinking it must have been made on site.

Thanks

 

[templdl]

It looked just like that lug, except where the mounting hole is, it was smaller and terminated in the breaker hole where a wire normally would be. Now the $100,000 question is was that lug bought someplace, or machined down on site? Usually on this site, if something is available, somebody has seen one and knows exactly what it is, so I'm thinking it must have been made on site.

Thanks

If the lug was altered then it most likely wouldn't apply with NEC art 110.
I dug as far as I had time to at the Seimens site and couldn't find and modifications for it.
That thing has to be tested for temperature rise when installed on the breaker per UL489. And I believe the lug must be UL486 listed also.