Getting my business on its feet....

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Phillipwalters

Member
Location
Hagerstown Maryland
I'm up and running part time with my business. I have no experience with estimating or the office side of things. Would like to learn how to properly estimate jobs and have the correct contracts in writing to cover me. Also I have herd of other contractors sending bids out to get better pricing or to just sub out work. If I am asked to do a bid on a project and I do not wish to do it, how can I send it out for other electrical contractors to bid on without them steeling it from me. If they do give me a bid and I feel I can profit how can I protect myself if something goes wrong. I have 16 years in the field mostly commercial and industrial and 0 years in the office. Thanks for reading any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you phillip Walters.
 
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cdslotz

Senior Member
If I am asked to do a bid on a project and I do not wish to do it, how can I send it out for other electrical contractors to bid on without them steeling it from me. If they do give me a bid and I feel I can profit how can I protect myself if something goes wrong.
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Don't bid jobs you don't want. I have never sent a bid request to another EC to sub out. I would have been laughed out of town. Other EC's ARE YOUR COMPETITION!
Besides, you would never be competitive enough by the time you add your markup on top of his markup.
If for some reason you were awarded a job using this method, you don't even know what your cost is. When your EC sub bails on you, you are the one left holding the bag (contract).

I went into business right after I passed my Masters. Like you, I had zero experience in estimating and management. I lasted less than a year. I went to work for another EC in the office and learned these skills, and today, 34 years later, I'm still learning.
Sorry to break this to you, there are NO shortcuts to estimating. Your risk is too high
 
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teco

Senior Member
Location
Mass north shore
My 2 cents

My 2 cents

Starting a business takes a great deal of time, energy, [yours] effort and money, also yours. If your gonna make a real go of it, IMO you can't be part time. Because then your just a guy doing side work. You have to work at it every day. If there is no work you need to spend your time finding some. If you fill up all your free time working for someone else you won't be putting in the effort it takes to build a business. Its hard I know and it helps to have a second income while your building.

That said, I would start with an estimating software program that is not too complicated and get use to doing estimates. Even fake ones, make them up, mess around with it. Then try to do some manually and compare them. I use Vision's and I like it. It's easy to use and not too expensive, though it's not cheap either. Most importantly it has won me jobs and I made money doing them. I have learned lots using this program. You also get better as you do more and more jobs with it. You get better at customizing the program to your company and the way you do business. Everbody is different. Make use of all the training offered on any program, it helps. I also use EPIC material pricing and find their target price very close to my suppliers. I always send the materials list to my suppliers anyway but epic puts all that together for me. As was already said, no one can tell you how. You have to jump in and use your head, and a little luck doesn't hurt either.

I would never send out a bid to another EC. IMO nothing good can come of that.
 
ptonsparky

ptonsparky

Tom
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
Study and read everything you can while you are part timing it. No work for day or two...bs...learn how to work a spreadsheet, a bookkeeping program, your estimating software. Download one or two of the free plc programing packages if you aren't already familiar with it. Take a night class and most importantly remember to hang your troubles on a tree branch before you go into the house...they will be waiting there in the morning. No sense sleeping with them too.
 
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CopperTone

Senior Member
Location
MetroWest, MA
Phillipwalters said:
I'm up and running part time with my business. I have no experience with estimating or the office side of things. Would like to learn how to properly estimate jobs and have the correct contracts in writing to cover me. Also I have herd of other contractors sending bids out to get better pricing or to just sub out work. If I am asked to do a bid on a project and I do not wish to do it, how can I send it out for other electrical contractors to bid on without them steeling it from me. If they do give me a bid and I feel I can profit how can I protect myself if something goes wrong. I have 16 years in the field mostly commercial and industrial and 0 years in the office. Thanks for reading any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you phillip Walters.
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Looking back, If I truly understood what it was going to take to succeed in running an EC business I probably would never have started it. Not knowing at first probably helped me. I didn't get overwhelmed with what I didn't know. I took baby steps and did one thing at a time. Trial by error. only estimate and do jobs at first that you feel comfortable with. get quick books, act professional - even if it is just you doing everything - every appearance to the customer should be professional. Stay organized - it is easy to get buried under paperwork. only spend what you need to live at first - reinvest money back into your company. you need to grow your business. It will not grow itself and no one is going to help you.

Forget about subbing work to other EC's - sounds like you are already trying to get out of working. You need to wear many hats for the first couple of years. Do the work and do the office work. when you have enough work - hire a helper, if you have even more work , hire another licensed electrician, add one at a time as you get busier. Hire a part time office person if you can't handle the load. At this point you should be still wearing many hats. You can be a project manager for your company and in charge of the office - but you need to let other people do their jobs.
 
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stevenje

Senior Member
Location
Yachats Oregon
jumper said:
Um....you became an EC with no estimating experience?

Be careful, a good electrician is not always a good businessman.
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Pay very close attention to the above quote. They both take completely different skill sets. Invest as much time into learning the business side of it all as you did for your trade. Good luck to you.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
What kind of jobs are you bidding? Someone just starting out is likely not bidding an entire high rise building, an entire new Wal Mart store or other projects that one person or even two is going to get done in a timely fashion.

The type of jobs you will be doing are small enough in nature that you should be able to look at plans and do a take off of what is needed to get a reasonable idea of what materials are needed, find out what they will cost and then estimating labor is a little trickier but if you have any experience at all you have an idea of what it will take to get it done.

The office managing you better just learn - it will not go away no matter what kind of business you operate,may change slightly with one business vs another but there is still a lot of similarities. I'm talking about things like managing accounts recievable/payable, insurance, taxes, licensing, etc.
 
kennydmeek

kennydmeek

Member
Location
Frederick MD
E-Myth is a very good book to read for starters. It helps you to understand the difference between being a technician and a manager and an entrepreneuer, and to run a business you have to be all three at different levels. The books by Ellen Rohr (Where Did the Money Go, and How Much Should I Charge) are also excellent as far as getting a grasp of what it's going to cost to pay your expenses as well as yourself. Bookkeeping is the first thing I farmed out...for 1/3 of an hour of my time I can get my Quickbooks setlled out for the month. That doesn't mean you don't get in there and understand your reports. Stay close to your bookkeeper and You '' know where your money is,..
 
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ATI

Member
Location
Kenosha,WI
I have found that the majority of my calls come in the first 4 hours of opening 7-11 or so and usually when someone gets off of work from 3-5 or so. I've found there's nothing more important than someone answering the phone when a customer calls. A secretary is propobably your cheapest thing your going to pay for all week 4-5 hours a day 5 days a week. 20 hours @ $8, 160 bucks ( less that 2 rolls of 14-3 ). You'll make that up not having to answer the phones while your on a ladder. Have it forwarded to you after 12, let the GC you do work for call you directly. At least then its usually semi important.
Just something that's worked for me. And you can have her fax, bill, and label jobs for you while she's not answering phones.
 
ptonsparky

ptonsparky

Tom
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
I recently had an A/C contractor call and ask me how much I paid my half time office help. His had just quit. I told him & he damned near spit his teeth out. "No way in Hell, I don't even pay my top tech that much!" To bad for both of them.

I really don't like training new ones every few months. She should probably get more. She puts up with a moody, bald, fat old guy. Charge enough to pay your office staff, even if it is the wife. They will appreciate it.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
ptonsparky said:
I recently had an A/C contractor call and ask me how much I paid my half time office help. His had just quit. I told him & he damned near spit his teeth out. "No way in Hell, I don't even pay my top tech that much!" To bad for both of them.

I really don't like training new ones every few months. She should probably get more. She puts up with a moody, bald, fat old guy. Charge enough to pay your office staff, even if it is the wife. They will appreciate it.
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Yet he wonders why he can't keep anyone in that position, right?

His top tech is likely to leave sometime also, what does he have to stay for?
 
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