Source for ambiguous exam questions- CCTV maximum length

[1.42_tera_dynes]

Hello all,

First time reader, first time poster and long time telephone contractor here in the State of CT so please forgive me in advance for any errors in this forum.

What is a time accurate recommendation for book(s), reference materials or what have you for the C5 low voltage exam In CT? Specifically for the ambiguous questions that are only answered correctly if you know some one who knows. Yes I know, read the NEC 70 and 72 and other code books but I am referring to outdated questions still on the test that you only would come across on a state exam.


example: Q18 What is the typical maximum CCTV Coax length?

My response: Ahhh well umm, what resolution are the cameras? 300 lines? 800 Lines? 1920 x1080? Are you using RG11, RG6 RFG59 coax? Composite, S Video, RF modulated video? Are the camera's and monitors a manufactures 'set' that use equalization to compensate and extend for analogue signal loss over coaxial wire? How much loss is acceptable? Color or black and white?

Obviously this question is as outdated as the 1994 test question: What is the most common type of telephone wire?


[] Star Quad was the correct answer in 1994 - you know the 4 conductor Gr Rd Blk Yel phone cable used in the 60's and 70's. Star Quad Cable is nothing I have ever seen installed when working at the DPCP in Hartford and the only reason I got that right was my marine buddy was told that was the answer by a building inspector.


Thank you in advance for your thoughts. This is for both an apprentice under me and I am going to take advantage of the grandfathered T1 to C5 'license upgrade'


Be Well


PS does any body else find it rather organized that you can purchase the NEC 2011 as a downloadable PDF, the electrical exam is open book but you can't use a kindle or laptop or tablet at the test center? Who carries paper any more!

 

[zbang]

example: Q18 What is the typical maximum CCTV Coax length?

I hate those questions, and there's no point arguing with the test proctor, they usually don't care. What is a "typical maximum", anyway?

Obviously this question is as outdated as the 1994 test question: What is the most common type of telephone wire?

[] Star Quad was the correct answer in 1994 - you know the 4 conductor Gr Rd Blk Yel phone cable used in the 60's and 70's.

Starquad?????? "StarQuad" is a trademark for Carare's microphone cable (which goes back to 1980's). I assume they're referring to D (or is it J, the memory is fuzzy) station cable. Let's use incorrect trademark names in a test, sheesh. The test is wrong on it's face. (Kind of like the people that argue about the names Unistrut and Kindorf.)

 

[darrell51]

I took the low voltage tests many years ago and the questions were outdated then. I think the tests lag behind current technologies. Some of the best sources are other technicians or installers that have been in the industry for a long time. If it were me, I would also look at dated installation manuals for low voltage systems. If you are an installer, register for the honeywell security mywebtech and you can look up some pretty old installation manuals. They will have specifics on cable types, wire gauge sizes, installation requirements of their products. If you have the option, work on some older systems and you will see how they were installed and the questions will sometimes be inherently part of your memory.

 

[hbiss]

I agree- if they are going to ask questions like that they need to have study guides with the information the questions are based on. Otherwise it's like asking what color socks you wear on a Monday.


-Hal

 

[1.42_tera_dynes]

Thank you all. Now I feel a bit better that I am not alone.

>I hate those questions, and there's no point arguing with the test proctor<


I will share another ambiguous question - and since the cat is out of the bag, yes I took the test (no code books as I can only purchase the NEC on line but can't bring a kindle, laptop or other electrical personal device)


? A block refers to:

I happened to see in Art 800 definitions that the term BLOCK is defined as, you guessed it. A city F(*%)(*%) block?

20 years in the field, its an exam for electrical work so I figured a block was like a 66 block, a telephone termination block, or a BIX or 110 block, or a block of DIDs. I seriously think they wanted the Art 800 definition of a city block!

. . . Some of the best sources are other technicians or installers that have been in the industry for a long time. If it were me, I would also look at dated installation manuals for low voltage systems. If you are an installer, register for the honeywell security mywebtech and you can look up some pretty old installation manuals.. . .

That's a good idea!

>>>if they are going to ask questions like that they need to have study guides with the information the questions are based on<<<

For $ you can get all that junk. Manufacture the cigarettes and sell nicorette.

This possibly relates to an argument I need to brush up on. Under CTGS any law or ordinance or requirement imposed on an individual or business... the state body must make fair and reasonable access to the understanding/ requirements of said license. Don't quote me on the statute. Just my understanding of several codes and to me it means, if I need a license to drive a car, the governing entity has to provide access to know what the law and rules are in a clear and unambiguous manner. This does not mean they have to pay for my driving school but they have to provide me with the rules of the road.


I am back to reading my electronic down load of NFPA 70 and 72 to see what other English words I apparently do not understand. If it is OK to do so, I will perhaps start a forum of the 'outdated ambiguous' questions that we all come across if any one feels that could help others; not to cheat but so we can 'perform our duties in a safe and beneficial manner for the people of Connecticut'


Be Well

 

[Speedskater]

The answer might be: 1000 feet. That's the longest standard length of a roll of co-ax cable.

 

[hbiss]

The answer might be: 1000 feet. That's the longest standard length of a roll of co-ax cable.

I don't know either but I'll bet if you go back to 1990 CCTV equipment spec sheets and consider only RG-59 solid dielectric and baseband video (6Mhz) you will find your answer.


Now see, if you were able to access the internet during the test you could look up the spec sheet for RG59 solid dielectric then look at the attenuation chart and see what it is at 6Mhz. Then from the multiple choice answers make an educated guess. But you can't.

-Hal

 

[nhfire77]

Although I cannot point to a reference, 300 feet is the generally accepted length of rg-59u when used for analog, passive, cctv video. Although you can push it much farther depending on the camera, environment or if you employ an active(powered) video transmission system (not just an analog feed from a camera).

 

[Speedskater]

But then RG-59U and long runs seems to be a contradiction in terms.

 

[del91574]

Since I have a C license in CT as well as an L contractor's (thanks to the wonderful state not allowing me to sit to bump my license) I know the wonders that the OP has gone through. I took both within a week of each other the last time around since I got my journeyman's originally.

The best books for the test are the BISCI reference and the cable reference listed in the PSI exam's site.

Coax is 1000'. Resolution has no bearing on the maximum distance without installing an amp. We're also talking NTSC video on CCTV and nothing else.

Telephone was USOC station wiring, unrated for any speeds.

 

[hbiss]

Resolution has no bearing on the maximum distance without installing an amp

Well, yeah with analog baseband video cable length certainly does affect resolution. The longer the run the more the high frequencies are attenuated, the lower frequencies not as much. Fine detail is contained in the higher frequencies of the 6Mhz bandwidth so as cable length increases the bandwidth decreases and the picture gets blurrier. That can be compensated for with amplifiers that have more gain at 6 Mhz than at the lower frequencies (tilt). But I don't know of any for CCTV video.

-Hal

 

[Rampage_Rick]

You should see the exam I wrote this morning... One of the sections was visual identification of RF connectors, and the images were practically unrecognizable (probably a 5th generation xerox)

BNC wasn't that tough because of the white ferrule, but boy did it take me a while to pick out the PL259.

There was other stuff too, like they kept referring to OC-1 as STS-1 (which I've never come across before today, I only associated them because they had the same bitrate)

I'm still kicking myself for the one answer I realized was wrong about 2 minutes after finishing the test: When asked for the number of PCM bits per sample, I chose 16 (I was thinking 16-bit digital audio) but in telephony the usual is 8 bits x 8000 samples/sec = 64kbps

3 hours allotted for the test, 3/4 of the questions in 45 min (easy) another 45 min for the remainder. Results in 2-4 weeks.

 

[1.42_tera_dynes]

A few more questions if I may-


Does everyone here through their state have their license test for what ever trade ( Elec., Plumbing, Heating, Telephone) administered by a company called PSI out of Las Vegas?


What is the procedure to challenge the CT State Occupational Licensing / Elec Board verbally/ in person? Has any one done this recently and would be willing to lend me their knowledge?


If you are the electrician from NY state who in the 90's sued the state (and won) because CT said you needed to live in CT to take the E1 test I want to speak to you!


Not sure how to explain this with out sounding like a raving idiot (Plus my head is on fire from this morning and the ludicrousness of how the exam process has changed in 20 years!) Below is the EXACT question for a C5 exam in CT that I of course got wrong.


I believe that my next recourse is legal action and that through discovery I can show that the other questions are equally ambiguous and have no bearing on ones' knowledge and ability in the low voltage / communications / electrical trades to better provide safe contracting services to the people in the State of CT.


If any one has examples of more ambiguous and incorrect questions generated by PSI and the state elec board and is willing to assist I would be most thankful.


15:41
#6 What is the maximum length of a horizontal voice and data communication cable?
Their answer 90 m


My answer 100 m referring to CAT 5 ethernet at 10/100B -T speed

May argument:
I have a land line in my home. The central office is about 4 miles away. The nearest SLICK is over 1100 feet to the main road if you want to argue that this communication cable begins there.



My cable modem is fed from even farther away.

I have installed both single line phones and TDM phones well over 2500 feet on horizontal twisted pair at a warehouses that was almost a mile long and the phone at the farthest loading dock worked fine.

I have installed RS 432? or is it RS 422? serial data for computing devices, machine control, printers and serial data communications well over 500 feet.

We all know there are transatlantic cables under the ocean carrying voice and data for miles.


Yeah Yeah I know EAI / TIA and manufactures' standards ' accepted' back when ethernet was the greatest thing since sliced bread that 100M was the maximum length to shoot for for 10/100 B-T Ethernet . Then some manufactures added don't forget the patch cables. Lets allow 10 m for the patch cord and the jack to the computer. Then some manufactures adopted 90m + 10m. Then some manufactures adopted..... and on it goes ever changing




Thanx for letting me rant.


Be Well

 

[1.42_tera_dynes]

Rampage_Rick


What state are you in? What license requires you to recognize coaxial / BNC connectors to better install a system that is safe from a building perspective and passes an electrical inspection? Or was this a test for like a manufacturing gig, job or university that wanted to be sure you knew your $^!??

 

[hbiss]

What is the maximum length of a horizontal voice and data communication cable?

That really is a trick question. They are talking about the common practice of running CAT5 cables from a patch panel to wall jacks that can be used for either voice (analog or digital) or data. After some thinking you realize that you can ignore the voice part since data would be the limiting factor. The industry standard is 100m maximum length. The question does not say "run" which would imply only the premises cable so I would take "length" to include any patch cords. So my answer would be 100m too. I don't know where they came up with that 90m anyway. That's nearly a 30 foot difference which is a heck of a lot for patch cords.

As to your other questions about taking action I wish you luck. Their tests need to be kept current, accurate and understandable.


-Hal

 

[1.42_tera_dynes]

Hi HBiss.



>>The industry standard is 100m maximum length.<<
Then we both just got it wrong.

They need to be specific if they want to reference 10/100 speed CAT 5 from the 90's.



>>>Speedskater

>>> The answer might be: 1000 feet. That's the longest standard length of a roll of co-ax cable.<<<

Wrong.​

Thank you for letting me rant.


I am in better spirits. Recommended to myself that rather than writing a 10 page legal brief I might be better served writing a 10 page paper for the electrical board to review and PSI that clearly shows I KNOW MY SHIT! 20 years not so much as a broken a ceiling tile.

 

[hbiss]

I'm right across the border in NY and we have no LV licensing requirement. Although I do no LV wiring in CT I have toyed with the idea of getting a CT C5 license. Thanks for jolting me back into reality.

-Hal

 

[iceworm]

... >>>if they are going to ask questions like that they need to have study guides with the information the questions are based on<<<

For $ you can get all that junk. Manufacture the cigarettes and sell nicorette. ...

uhhh ... why not buy the guides (and the instructors guides while you are at it)

That was my solution for both my PE ticket and EA ticket. In both exams, there were questions right out of the guide - only the numbers were changed.

Fighting city hall is fun - making money is more fun.

If you want to be a hero, join the appropriate organizations after you get your license and take on the Syndicate to your hearts content. I encourage you all I can. Someone has to do it. And I won't. My passion is collecting the money for an excellent, on-time, in-spec, in-budget, job.

ice

 

[hbiss]

uhhh ... why not buy the guides (and the instructors guides while you are at it)

That would be the easy thing to do except that I don't believe they exist for this exam. Wasn't that talked about early on? I think the OP was just assuming in your quote.


-Hal

 

[Rampage_Rick]

Rampage_Rick
What state are you in? What license requires you to recognize coaxial / BNC connectors to better install a system that is safe from a building perspective and passes an electrical inspection? Or was this a test for like a manufacturing gig, job or university that wanted to be sure you knew your $^!†?

Just got my certificate in the mail yesterday...

"An Electronics Communications Technician is a person who installs, maintains, troubleshoots and repairs data and communication systems, equipment and cabling on computer networking, telephone, security and other related data systems."



ITA issues all the trade certifications for the Province of BC (sparky, boilermaker, automotive technician, etc) I had some free time over the winter so I applied at the beginning of January to challenge this certification (it's normally a 3-year apprenticeship) Well it turns out that they're no longer offering apprenticeships for this program due to lack of demand, and it took months to get them to offer the test to me. I just checked and they don't even offer the option to challenge any more. http://www.itabc.ca/Page617.aspx

It would seem that I am the last person in the province to get it...