Box offset or no
- Thread starter billdozier 78
- Start date
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Barndog
Senior Member
- Location
- Spring Creek Pa
Yes there is we have one where i work at. Not sure if its a Greenlee.
Strathead
Senior Member
- Location
- Ocala, Florida, USA
- Occupation
- Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
I am with you on this one. Sometimes we craftsmen) tend to get a little too anal. A 1/2" conduit entering the KO nearest the stud strapped 3 feet away from the box is not going to present a "bad" installation. It is easy to pick it apart, but the loss of cosmetics is outweighed by the time saved, and what no one here has mentioned, the reduction in the degrees of bend in the conduit run. Using an offset bender, like the Greenlee, is, to me actually detrimental to a good pipe installation in a wall. Even if you are going to put a box kick in, it should be as long as possible to minimize the bending degrees. A foot long kick is very easy and fogiving in a 1/2" or 3/4" and even a 1" to some extent. Time is money!
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Although I generally disregard counting offsets when calculating how many degrees of bend is in a run, (and will continue to do so until an inspector says otherwise) a bend is a bend. You can make 45 - 1 degree bends or you can make one 45 degree bend you have still deflected the pipe 45 degrees haven't you?
edit: when I mentioned disregarding offsets I meant the small offsets made at boxes, not a larger offset.
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Rewire
Senior Member
- Location
- Lake of the Ozarks
I can bend a perfect box offset in my sleep and it really is easy to do them in walls. I know the work will be seen until it gets covered so doing a neat installation is important. I think one of the things that drives the value of our services down is the fact that we have stopped being craftsmen.
renosteinke
Senior Member
- Location
- NE Arkansas
For me, it's not a matter of looks - so it doesn't matter if the work is concealed or exposed. I just don't think it's right for the conduit to be fighting the hangers - it ought to lay naturally in place, and the hanger just there to hold it. Same thing for the connection to the box - the pipe ought to just slip into place.
I like those caddy clips, and will have to try them.
I like those caddy clips, and will have to try them.
PEDRO ESCOVILLA
Senior Member
- Location
- south texas
if running exposed, where it'll be seen, always a measured offset. if running high on mini's, where it's already spaced off the wall, no. good workmanship is very important to me. if a PM says it's taking too long, i tell them you can't rush good work. after a short while, they also know who they trust, and count on to doa good job, because it shows in the work you do.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
How many of you out there regularly mount raceways on curved surfaces like that of grain storage silos?
Frequent slight bends in raceways is a must on those kind of surfaces. The occasional place where someone did not do so usually has broken fittings everywhere if you come look at it sometime after they are gone. And when you get to a box a regular offset made with an offset bender almost never works. You usually need a custom offset for the application. One bend may be different number of degrees than the other when it fits right.
Frequent slight bends in raceways is a must on those kind of surfaces. The occasional place where someone did not do so usually has broken fittings everywhere if you come look at it sometime after they are gone. And when you get to a box a regular offset made with an offset bender almost never works. You usually need a custom offset for the application. One bend may be different number of degrees than the other when it fits right.
Cow
Senior Member
- Location
- Eastern Oregon
- Occupation
- Electrician
Grain silos are a whole different animal. It takes a lot of bending and tweeking on my part to get it to lay in there just right. I've come in behind other installations where someone used straps every 3' to suck the pipe in, you can see the bends aren't right and straps bent out from the tension. Box offsets are definitely NOT standard on a silo.
We've done work on conveyors in distribution centers as well, pretty much the same deal on those 90 degree conveyor sections.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Part of why I brought it up, and they have been common installs for me for 25 years or so, and yet we have guys that are worried about whether or not an offset inside a wall is worth the effort to make up.
Big mistake I see on grain silos by others a lot is failure to arrange raceways to drain. Condensation is generally much worse on these structures than other structures - everything is steel and when you have a 95 degree day that thing soaks up the sun and is like 125 degrees or even higher so you have even bigger temperature change for even more condensation to occur every night than you do on many other structures. Failure to arrange to drain becomes a big problem when winter comes along and that built up condensation freezes and splits the raceway open.
renosteinke
Senior Member
- Location
- NE Arkansas
Confession time ... I really haven't given much thought to box offsets since I bought that Greenlee offset bender ("squisher") eight years ago. I just put the bend in .... no muss, no fuss.
Sure, the price is scary ... but I don't regret it one bit.
Sure, the price is scary ... but I don't regret it one bit.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
If it saves you time it is worth it, unless it is something you hardly ever use. It might not save you any money, but will help increase productivity which will result in the ability to make more money in same amount of time - or look at it this way, the faster you can get one job done the more time you have to take on other jobs.
renosteinke
Senior Member
- Location
- NE Arkansas
Oh, I agree with you there.
Learning the trade, I also learned to dread, even hate, certain tasks. Like, say, boring a 2-1/2" hole in a 'tilt-up.'
As time went by and I got the proper tools, I would sometimes find myself pleasantly surprised at how easily a (formerly dreaded) task went.
IMO, the offset is such a tool.
Learning the trade, I also learned to dread, even hate, certain tasks. Like, say, boring a 2-1/2" hole in a 'tilt-up.'
As time went by and I got the proper tools, I would sometimes find myself pleasantly surprised at how easily a (formerly dreaded) task went.
IMO, the offset is such a tool.
Cow
Senior Member
- Location
- Eastern Oregon
- Occupation
- Electrician
I'll try 1" to 1.25" on a tilt up because I know I can blow through rebar if I hit it. Any bigger than that and I hire a coring company. But you're right, the jobs you dread don't seem like a big deal anymore when you have the right tools or can hire someone with them.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
John120/240
Senior Member
- Location
- Olathe, Kansas
Tilt up around here refers to a tilt up building. Pre cast concrete wall panels, delivered to
the job site then they tlit them up. They can come with dock doors, man doors already
cut out. Check out your big box store. Wall panels can be 10ft wide & whatever height
you need. You will have a grout joint between every panel. Wired a million sq ft warehouse
in 2009.
the job site then they tlit them up. They can come with dock doors, man doors already
cut out. Check out your big box store. Wall panels can be 10ft wide & whatever height
you need. You will have a grout joint between every panel. Wired a million sq ft warehouse
in 2009.
Cow
Senior Member
- Location
- Eastern Oregon
- Occupation
- Electrician
And now you know:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRpjTTeEGi0&feature=related
As you can imagine, they have a TON of rebar in them. So making holes in them is NOT fun, unless you wet core.
Around here they form & pour the walls on the floor of the building they are constructing, then tilt them in place after curing time.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
And now you know:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRpjTTeEGi0&feature=related
As you can imagine, they have a TON of rebar in them. So making holes in them is NOT fun, unless you wet core.
I guess that is why I didn't know what they are, that is not something done around here, but thank you for telling me what they are.
Big box stores - maybe, but there aren't any in the area where I normally operate, would have to go at least 40 miles for most of those types of jobs, so I don't see how they are constructed. I do travel well over 40 miles for some jobs but usually I am traveling even farther into the boonies and not to the city. I don't do work in the closest bigger city that may see more of this type of construction, (A) I am not registered to work there, (B) I have plenty of work to do here.
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