UL rating on Electronic switches.

[tjatwood]

Stupid Question Time! I just failed an Electrical Final on my Low Voltage Data Cabling install because there is no UL mark on the switch components.

The three prong power cord and the IEC connector in the switch are UL rated. But the switch label only has a CE rating.
Any one have any information as to passing without buying a switch for several hundred more dollars?

EDIT: This is in Pinellas County Florida.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Stupid Question Time! I just failed an Electrical Final on my Low Voltage Data Cabling install because there is no UL mark on the switch components.

The three prong power cord and the IEC connector in the switch are UL rated. But the switch label only has a CE rating.
Any one have any information as to passing without buying a switch for several hundred more dollars?

EDIT: This is in Pinellas County Florida.

What code section did the inspector use?

 

[tjatwood]

What code section did the inspector use?

Did not give a code section, just noted it on my fail! and pointed out that there was no UL marking on the switch label.

 

[zbang]

Stupid Question Time! I just failed an Electrical Final on my Low Voltage Data Cabling install because there is no UL mark on the switch components.

The three prong power cord and the IEC connector in the switch are UL rated. But the switch label only has a CE rating.
Any one have any information as to passing without buying a switch for several hundred more dollars?

To be more specific-
Since 'switch' can mean any number of things in the low-voltage/IT world, I'm guessing this is a line-voltage switch controlled by a low-voltage signal, yes? (Not an ethernet or KVM switch.)
It's cord-n-plug connected (not fixed wired)?
Where is it located?
Why does there need to be a UL mark, anyway?

If there's a violation, there has to be some codified words to make it a violation, and those words have a section number. If the inspector can't cite a code section, it's not a violation.

 

[tjatwood]

To be more specific-
Since 'switch' can mean any number of things in the low-voltage/IT world, I'm guessing this is a line-voltage switch controlled by a low-voltage signal, yes? (Not an ethernet or KVM switch.)
It's cord-n-plug connected (not fixed wired)?
Where is it located?
Why does there need to be a UL mark, anyway?

If there's a violation, there has to be some codified words to make it a violation, and those words have a section number. If the inspector can't cite a code section, it's not a violation.

Well it is a Intellinet Ethernet Data Network Switch that is rack mounted.
This one in particular--> http://www.icintracom.com/america/2...p-7409.html?osCsid=i54i4uufv425fogj8g000cndb3

I just spoke with a retired UL tester that I know in Michigan and he says there is no way around it. They are starting to kick fails on non UL listed/tested devices since CE
is a European testing and not recognized in North America.

He said that the power cord and connector has nothing to do with the device being rated.
He said that my only alternative is to go and buy a switch that is UL on the device sticker.

OH Well!

Also here --->http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/...or/electrical/additionalresources/cemarkings/

Very last line says (The CE Marking on products is not a certification mark. AHJs should continue to look for the UL Mark on products to determine if a product complies with applicable safety requirements for North America.)

So I guess we are in for a storm in the data world!

 

[don_resqcapt19]

CE is not a third party test, it is a self-evaluation by the manufacturer of the product and is not accepted as a "listing" agency.

As far as the inspector requiring a listing mark, if the installation is covered by the NEC, then 110.2 says:

110.2 Approval. The conductors and equipment required or permitted by this Code shall be acceptable only if approved.

Approved. Acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction.

Based on the definition of "approved" and the Informational Note that follows 110.3(A)(1), many AHJs require the use of "listed" products.

 

[tjatwood]

CE is not a third party test, it is a self-evaluation by the manufacturer of the product and is not accepted as a "listing" agency.

As far as the inspector requiring a listing mark, if the installation is covered by the NEC, then 110.2 says:


Based on the definition of "approved" and the Informational Note that follows 110.3(A)(1), many AHJs require the use of "listed" products.

Thanks guys for the input, I guess my only alternative is go and buy another switch.

I appreciate all the input, and can see a storm coming in the data market.
I don't really like the direction all this is going but I guess I have to comply with it.
Looks like the price of Data networks just went way up!

Tom

 

[zbang]

Well it is a Intellinet Ethernet Data Network Switch that is rack mounted.

There are hundreds, possibly thousands, of different 24 port 1g ethernet switches out there. Is there anything special about the Intellinet? You can get cisco, HP, and Netgear for $3-400 each, possibly less. (I'm not familiar with Intellinet, but it does not seem to be in the middle/top tiers of networking equipment, more of a budget piece. I would probably not install them myself without some testing; I've had too many problems with low-end switches.)

I just spoke with a retired UL tester that I know in Michigan and he says there is no way around it. [...]He said that the power cord and connector has nothing to do with the device being rated. He said that my only alternative is to go and buy a switch that is UL on the device sticker.

What requires you to use a NRTL-listed device? That's the real question. Is this an article 645 installation? Is there a Florida code amendment? (And have you talked to Intellinet about this?) BTW, I'm not suggesting that you find a loophole to use this unlisted gear, only that if there isn't a requirement for it, it should be OK.

 

[kwired]

BTW, I'm not suggesting that you find a loophole to use this unlisted gear, only that if there isn't a requirement for it, it should be OK.

My thoughts also. Too many get hung up on listing, especially listing by UL. There are other NRTL's and UL is not married to NEC, though they go together quite often. Some even get hung up on fact that if something does not have a listing it can't be used. Not all things are required to be listed, and others you may have trouble even finding something that is listed for your application.

 

[tjatwood]

There are hundreds, possibly thousands, of different 24 port 1g ethernet switches out there. Is there anything special about the Intellinet? You can get cisco, HP, and Netgear for $3-400 each, possibly less. (I'm not familiar with Intellinet, but it does not seem to be in the middle/top tiers of networking equipment, more of a budget piece. I would probably not install them myself without some testing; I've had too many problems with low-end switches.)



What requires you to use a NRTL-listed device? That's the real question. Is this an article 645 installation? Is there a Florida code amendment? (And have you talked to Intellinet about this?) BTW, I'm not suggesting that you find a loophole to use this unlisted gear, only that if there isn't a requirement for it, it should be OK.

I have used Intellinet for many years and NEVER had any problems with them, their warranty and service has been above any standard.
I am sure they are just re-branded products since all the 60+ pages of Verification of conformity and such reflects mostly TrendNet products.
I have looked through the Florida Building Codes and find nothing.

This particular application is in a school data center, and no I am not looking for a way of cheating or the such. I have just never had this
come up before and it has never been a part of any testing or further education training I have had since being a 10 year licensed Low Voltage Contractor.
I have taken all the NEC update classes and training and this has never been the subject in any of them.

But sitting here looking at all my computers and servers and monitors and keyboards and mouse products it seems since none of them are UL rated/listed it is just funny. LOL

:? :blink:

I have my Final RE-Inspection tomorrow and have replace the Intellinet Gigabyte switch with a NetGear GT748 Gigabyte switch at a cost of $699.00
and it is Safety Agency Approvals

UL listed (UL 1950)/cUL
IEC 950/EN 60950

But when I get inspected I am asking if for future knowledge what code or section was used for the requirement. just for my information.