I-Line breaker question

[growler]

Any I-Line experts out there. I'm in an area for a short time where parts are kind of hard to get and I'm needing to know if there is a down side to useing an I-Line breaker that's rated for 600V in a panel that rated at 240. I assume they will fit but I may even be wrong about that. It's a J frame and the panel will accept a J-frame. Any opinions welcome, I googled an articles that has me concerned but wanted to ask the experts.​

 

[Jraef]

As far as I know there would be no difference in a J frame, i believe they are all 600V rated breakers.

 

[steve66]

I'm not an Iline expert, but I think all the J frame breakers are rated for 600V.

I think all the Iline panels are also rated for 600 volts.

So as long as your Iline accepts J frame breakers, I can't imagine it won't fit.

But I do see note in the catalog for a type HCN Iline - it says

"225A max (240V max) branch circuit breaker QB, QD, QG, QJ. 150A max branch circuit breaker FA, FH....." But that type of Iline won't even accept a J frame breaker.

Hopefully you will get confirmation from someone else.

 

[jim dungar]

I-Line panels are rated based on the breakers you install in them.

Only use 600V breakers, and you will have a 600V panel. Install at least (1) 10kAIC breaker then you panel has a maximum SCCR of 10kA.

The only limiting feature is the construction of the panel being able to accomodate the breaker you are trying to install.

 

[Jraef]

I-Line panels are rated based on the breakers you install in them.

Only use 600V breakers, and you will have a 600V panel. Install at least (1) 10kAIC breaker then you panel has a maximum SCCR of 10kA.

The only limiting feature is the construction of the panel being able to accomodate the breaker you are trying to install.

And that an I-Line panel is not rated for use on 240/120V 3 phase 4 wire sytems.

 

[kwired]

Looking at catalog I am not finding a J frame breaker, I do find a "J" interrupting rating for several of the different frames and it is typically 100kA interrupt rating @ 240 volts, 65kA @ 480 volts, and 25kA @ 600 volts.

 

[Jraef]

Looking at catalog I am not finding a J frame breaker, I do find a "J" interrupting rating for several of the different frames and it is typically 100kA interrupt rating @ 240 volts, 65kA @ 480 volts, and 25kA @ 600 volts.

JD, JG, JK, JL

250AF, 600V rated.

 

[kwired]

And that an I-Line panel is not rated for use on 240/120V 3 phase 4 wire sytems.

Please let us know where information is that confirms that, I have never seen it before.

Can't recall using I line on that system before but will keep it in consideration if not rated for it.

I would think the breakers are as mentioned the limiting factor, and I have used the breakers many times on 240/120 3 phase 4 wire - in particular the Q frame. The Q frame without the I line jaws is still the same breaker with a different connecting device on one end and the added mounting foot. I'm fairly certain an I line panel can be used for 480 volt corner ground systems, and don't see why a system with a wild leg would change its usability.

Since I have catalog out have not seen any information related to this, but did not look through every fine print section either.

 

[jim dungar]

And that an I-Line panel is not rated for use on 240/120V 3 phase 4 wire sytems.

Says who?:?

 

[Jraef]

Please let us know where information is that confirms that, I have never seen it before.

Can't recall using I line on that system before but will keep it in consideration if not rated for it.

I would think the breakers are as mentioned the limiting factor, and I have used the breakers many times on 240/120 3 phase 4 wire - in particular the Q frame. The Q frame without the I line jaws is still the same breaker with a different connecting device on one end and the added mounting foot. I'm fairly certain an I line panel can be used for 480 volt corner ground systems, and don't see why a system with a wild leg would change its usability.

Since I have catalog out have not seen any information related to this, but did not look through every fine print section either.

Says who?:?

It's in the I-Line catalog. IIRC from my days at Sq. D., it's because with the I-Line bus connection system, for all of it's benefits, there is no way to prevent someone from plugging in a 1 pole breaker to the B phase. I'm not sure that's the reason, I left them in 1989, I've killed a lot of those brain cells now.

Service
I-Line circuit breaker panelboards can be used on the following
system voltages:
? 120/240 VAC; 1-phase, 3-wire
? 240 VAC; 1-phase, 2-wire
? 240 VAC; 3-phase, 3-wire
? 240 VAC Ground, B-phase; 3-phase, 3-wire
? 208Y/120 VAC; 3-phase, 4-wire
? 480Y/277 VAC; 3-phase, 4-wire
? 480 VAC; 3-phase, 3-wire
? 600Y/347 VAC; 3-phase, 4-wire
? 600 VAC; 3-phase, 3-wire
? 125/250 VDC; 3-wire
? 250 VDC; 2-wire

 

[jim dungar]

It's in the I-Line catalog. IIRC from my days at Sq. D., it's because with the I-Line bus connection system, for all of it's benefits, there is no way to prevent someone from plugging in a 1 pole breaker to the B phase. I'm not sure that's the reason, I left them in 1989, I've killed a lot of those brain cells now.

You are remembering wrong. The I-Line panel has no more proscriptions on its use for 240/120 3Ph4W systems than any other panel. Check their FAQ page.

There is nothing wrong with plugging a breaker on to the 'high' B-phase, as long as the breaker is rated for 208VL-G (which most 1 and 2 pole breakers are not).

 

[jim dungar]

It's in the I-Line catalog.

Try looking in their instruction manual.

http://static.schneider-electric.us...ower Distribution Panelboard/80043-309-18.pdf

 

[texie]

Boy, I sure hope they are rated for 240/120 3 phase 4 wire because I sure have done a lot of them over the years.

 

[kwired]

You are remembering wrong. The I-Line panel has no more proscriptions on its use for 240/120 3Ph4W systems than any other panel. Check their FAQ page.

There is nothing wrong with plugging a breaker on to the 'high' B-phase, as long as the breaker is rated for 208VL-G (which most 1 and 2 pole breakers are not).

But if you had a need for a 1 pole breaker on the high leg there are 277 volt single pole breakers available.

I line is also different from many other panels because instead of selecting which bus you connect to via the position you install the breaker, you have to select single and two pole breakers designed to match which bus you want to plug on to. If using an I line for single phase you just don't use one of the buses and have to make sure you don't get any breakers that utilize the unused bus.

 

[Jraef]

Try looking in their instruction manual.

http://static.schneider-electric.us...ower Distribution Panelboard/80043-309-18.pdf

Yep, looks to be the case. As I said, I left in 1989, that manual is dated 1996, maybe it changed. I just recall it was a big hairy deal when I worked there in the Seattle office because there were a lot of legacy 240/120V 3Ph 4W systems around there put in by Seattle City Light. Commecial contractors working in those areas were buying everything from GE and ITE even though we had our own assembly plant in Seattle (at that time) and got almost all of the other industrial business.

 

[jim dungar]

Yep, looks to be the case. As I said, I left in 1989, that manual is dated 1996, maybe it changed. I just recall it was a big hairy deal when I worked there in the Seattle office because there were a lot of legacy 240/120V 3Ph 4W systems around there put in by Seattle City Light. Commecial contractors working in those areas were buying everything from GE and ITE even though we had our own assembly plant in Seattle (at that time) and got almost all of the other industrial business.

Since at least 1978, it has never been an issue in Wisconsin.
Most likely the Seattle group was under the impression that because it didn't specifically say it on the label it must not be acceptable. I know of people who have a hard time with this concept with 208Y/120 systems and panels labeled only as 240V max.

 

[growler]

I know of people who have a hard time with this concept with 208Y/120 systems and panels labeled only as 240V max.

There are lots of different opinions in this world.

I just wanted to throw the idea of useing a breaker rated for a higher voltage (600V) in a panel labeled for a 120/208Y. The do make breakers specifically rated at 240V but my first thought is that a breaker rated at 600 volt was just tested at that to receive it's UL approval and other than that there shouldn't be a difference.

I was just wondering if the engineers here would come up with some good reason why this would not work or give any reason for concern.

I like getting the opinions of others because in the past there have been minor details that I didn't even consider until they were brought up be others.

Thanks for the response and any other opinions folks.

 

[jim dungar]

There are lots of different opinions in this world.

I just wanted to throw the idea of useing a breaker rated for a higher voltage (600V) in a panel labeled for a 120/208Y. The do make breakers specifically rated at 240V but my first thought is that a breaker rated at 600 volt was just tested at that to receive it's UL approval and other than that there shouldn't be a difference.

I was just wondering if the engineers here would come up with some good reason why this would not work or give any reason for concern.

Above 400A you have never been able to buy a <600V breaker. 600V I-Line breakers have been tested and carry UL Listed AIC ratings for 240V and 480V systems.