Bad times

[tyha]

I just wanted to let you guys know that over the last 6 months we have been going through some really rough stuff. serious lack of work, GC's delaying payments constantly. I absolutely love what I do. Just the feel of winnig a bid or a nice empty building that you can picture the different ways your going to get things accomplished. The conduit runs, drops, boxes, lights, feeders I love it so much I would never walk away from it but Im getting a serious cashflow crunch and I gotta have something come through asap or I may be looking for a job. And I know now that since Ive seen behind the wall of what really goes on and how work is found and bid and managed I dont think I could do that for somebody else. I dont know Im just feeling low wanted to ventand possibly looking for some fresh Ideas. Like if anyone needs a sub around here for awhile.

 

[templdl]

I just wanted to let you guys know that over the last 6 months we have been going through some really rough stuff. serious lack of work, GC's delaying payments constantly. I absolutely love what I do. Just the feel of winnig a bid or a nice empty building that you can picture the different ways your going to get things accomplished. The conduit runs, drops, boxes, lights, feeders I love it so much I would never walk away from it but Im getting a serious cashflow crunch and I gotta have something come through asap or I may be looking for a job. And I know now that since Ive seen behind the wall of what really goes on and how work is found and bid and managed I dont think I could do that for somebody else. I dont know Im just feeling low wanted to ventand possibly looking for some fresh Ideas. Like if anyone needs a sub around here for awhile.

Thanks for sharing. This delayed payment issue is plain rude. Why should you finance the job?
Hopefully November 6th will make a difference for us as a result of who we vote for and free up the economy by allowing the free market to grow and our businesses to florish again.

 

[satcom]

I just wanted to let you guys know that over the last 6 months we have been going through some really rough stuff. serious lack of work, GC's delaying payments constantly. I absolutely love what I do. Just the feel of winnig a bid or a nice empty building that you can picture the different ways your going to get things accomplished. The conduit runs, drops, boxes, lights, feeders I love it so much I would never walk away from it but Im getting a serious cashflow crunch and I gotta have something come through asap or I may be looking for a job. And I know now that since Ive seen behind the wall of what really goes on and how work is found and bid and managed I dont think I could do that for somebody else. I dont know Im just feeling low wanted to ventand possibly looking for some fresh Ideas. Like if anyone needs a sub around here for awhile.

For you it is the last six months, others may tell you they have lived with the rough times, for the last 3 years 6 months of slow time should be expected if you are depended on only construction bid work, if you balance your work with some service, contract maintenance work

 

[Fulthrotl]

Thanks for sharing. This delayed payment issue is plain rude. Why should you finance the job?
Hopefully November 6th will make a difference for us as a result of who we vote for and free up the economy by allowing the free market to grow and our businesses to florish again.

well, good luck with election saving something.

changing the hood ornament doesn't affect a rod bearing
that is spun on an engine that needs rebuilding

the economic situation we face started about 1979.
it's bipartisan. i don't care if you elect the easter bunny,
nothing is gonna change all that much, all that fast.

we have politicians who spend money like a drunken sailor on
a three day pass. that sailor isn't going to betty ford
any time soon.

everyone is so very very upset with our economy being
in difficult straits.

let's look at japan.
and greece.
and the whole freaking middle east, for that matter.

nobody's shooting at us, or killing us cause they
disagree with us. nobody is bombing us. we didn't lose
all our electric power and a huge manufacturing base
to a tsunami.

right now, a lot of people don't have any money.
so, you scale back, and don't let people get into
your pocket too deeply.

my first shop i worked for, the old fellow who owned it
put it like this:

"don't take any job you can't afford to walk away from
without getting a dime."

and after 40 years of contracting, and running service
trucks and medium sized jobs.... his customer filter
was pretty well tuned.

attorneys and doctors were quoted hard numbers,
and a check was gotten for payment in full before
work was started. he wouldn't do the work otherwise.
as an apprentice, i got to take the check to the bank
it was drawn on, and convert it to a cashiers check.

so, right now, the thrill of a big shiny new job is an
expensive luxury for many of us.

when you are playing pickup ball in the rain, base
hits will get you there a lot more than home runs.

 

[andyselec@aol.com]

It seems everyone is just holding on expense are up but we can't charge more It is like Ive been working part time for the last 3-4 yrs emptying the savings and just hoping for better times, will they ever return? Maybe it is time to head to the hills and go farming

 

[mstrlucky74]

WELL SAID!!!!!!!!!

well, good luck with election saving something.

changing the hood ornament doesn't affect a rod bearing
that is spun on an engine that needs rebuilding

the economic situation we face started about 1979.
it's bipartisan. i don't care if you elect the easter bunny,
nothing is gonna change all that much, all that fast.

we have politicians who spend money like a drunken sailor on
a three day pass. that sailor isn't going to betty ford
any time soon.

everyone is so very very upset with our economy being
in difficult straits.

let's look at japan.
and greece.
and the whole freaking middle east, for that matter.

nobody's shooting at us, or killing us cause they
disagree with us. nobody is bombing us. we didn't lose
all our electric power and a huge manufacturing base
to a tsunami.

right now, a lot of people don't have any money.
so, you scale back, and don't let people get into
your pocket too deeply.

my first shop i worked for, the old fellow who owned it
put it like this:

"don't take any job you can't afford to walk away from
without getting a dime."

and after 40 years of contracting, and running service
trucks and medium sized jobs.... his customer filter
was pretty well tuned.

attorneys and doctors were quoted hard numbers,
and a check was gotten for payment in full before
work was started. he wouldn't do the work otherwise.
as an apprentice, i got to take the check to the bank
it was drawn on, and convert it to a cashiers check.

so, right now, the thrill of a big shiny new job is an
expensive luxury for many of us.

when you are playing pickup ball in the rain, base
hits will get you there a lot more than home runs.

 

[ptonsparky]

It seems everyone is just holding on expense are up but we can't charge more It is like Ive been working part time for the last 3-4 yrs emptying the savings and just hoping for better times, will they ever return? Maybe it is time to head to the hills and go farming

You think runing an EC business is a money hog...try starting to farm without some way of easing into it. Talk about gambling!!

 

[norcal]

I would not hold my breath on the outcome of the election, nowadays we get to pick em based on how less evil one politician is then another, that does does not bode well for the future...................... Local elections can have more impact then National ones.

 

[cdslotz]

I've been in this trade since 1971. I have served my time on ladders, I have owned my own shop with 20+ employees. Took a salary job as project mgr for large commercial company, ran service departments, then settled on estimating as my favorite, less stressful part of the business.
I have been a commercial estimator since 1980. The last job I had was as chief estimator.
After 18 years at this firm, I got laid off in January. No warning, although I knew something had to give with our office staff. No jobs were coming in to bid at all. I would have thought I would be reassigned, seeing as I was 2nd in seniority in the company. Nope. That is the first time I have been laid off ever in this industry.

So, here I am with still a lot of knowledge, skills and years left to work again, only there is no one hiring for estimating, unless I want to relocate, commute, or walk into a situation where a company lost their estimator, and now I'm into a 50+ hour work week.
I am 59 and I don't think I'm going back.

I have also been a musician for all my life, so I will finish my working years off just gigging.
I love and will miss the electrical trade. It's been good to me.
The OP is expressing thoughts I have had through the decades regarding my next move in a cyclical industry.
He seems like he's young and loves what he does.
I'm inclined to tell him to hang in there, but of all the downturns I've been through, this is the worst.
Good luck

 

[petersonra]

There are no easy answers. The reality is that small businesses tend to have a very high failure rate, even forgetting the economy.

 

[Rewire]

I am having one of my best years ever. we have totally changed our focus and how we do business. we have gotten our ARs almost to 0 . we collect all jobs on completionand require deposits on every job. Our cash flow has been great no more sweating payrole each week. The biggest change we have made is we dont work for GCs antmore. We work directly with the customr no midle man and no payment holdups.

 

[templdl]

These are quotes from on of the candidates:? I actually believe in redistribution.? ?The trick . . . and this is one of the few areas where I think there are technical issues that have to be dealt with, as opposed to just political issues. I think the trick is figuring out how do we structure government systems that pool resources and hence facilitate some redistribution, because I actually believe in redistribution, at least at a certain level, to make sure that everybody?s got a shot.?
"And, you didn't build that."
?The rich must pay their fair share?
Where does this philosophy and beliefs fit into a free market by either candidate? Should either candidate compromise our ability to make a profit and build our businesses our business will continue to suffer?
And to tax the wealthy in order to support the growing 47% who don't pay taxes? One must realize that none of us wants to be included in that category and want jobs.
Our business needs to grow so that people can be hired in order to reduce that 47% for those that do want to work. But the business climate must provide the ability to grow businesses and that just isn't happening. From what I can tell from this forum there are many who are hanging of by the skin of their teeth just too at least stay in business.
Businesses must be allowed to keep more of their own money rather than be taxed more just to be squandered by the ever growing government and welfare, food stamps etc.
The key to growing our economy is us. Our business must be allowed to grow, to be healthy financially, and to allow us to hire people to get them off of unemployment.
My concern, being a capitalist as I am, is that government insists that it is better at spending my money than I am.
Please remember that the top 1% of the taxpayers pay 37% of the taxes and the bottom 47% and growing pay 2%. And just is paying their "fair" share. Have any of us gotten a job from a poor person?
Now the government is printing more money which continues to dilute our dollar. The price of gas may be at an all time high and it may be caused by supply and demand in part but on the world market our dollar is worth less do it takes more of them to by gas. Didn?t loose any money on your investments? Well you actually did because your dollar is worth less because if the deflation of the dollar. Even though you may have the same amount of dollars they don?t go as far as before.

 

[ptonsparky]

I am having one of my best years ever. we have totally changed our focus and how we do business. we have gotten our ARs almost to 0 . we collect all jobs on completionand require deposits on every job. Our cash flow has been great no more sweating payrole each week. The biggest change we have made is we dont work for GCs antmore. We work directly with the customr no midle man and no payment holdups.

I have not had to deal with GCs very often in the last few years. Now I am dealing with a large one.
What a PIA. Payment requests have to be perfect. Notarized??!! They hold back 10% of everything and are 45 days out. If the owner had not been a long time customer I would not have even looked at the project, or even known about it.
We will be fine but you are right, that middle man is a drag.

 

[hillbilly1]

Read "Who moved my cheese?", you just have to figure out new ways to get around bad management in government, even if it is trying to force you out of business. We went from being a major contractor in new construction, to being a major contractor in service. Even though building has come to a screaching halt, people still have to fix what they already have. You may have been comfortable doing new construction and made good money at one time, but with the government forcing banks (of course they were willing accomplices) to loan money to people that had no business getting the loans because they were no where near qualified, to people overseas that hate us so bad that they come over here to harm us and our economy, have done great harm that neither side seems to have the will power to fix, as another said, you can only vote for the lesser evil at this time.

 

[templdl]

Read "Who moved my cheese?", you just have to figure out new ways to get around bad management in government, even if it is trying to force you out of business. We went from being a major contractor in new construction, to being a major contractor in service. Even though building has come to a screaching halt, people still have to fix what they already have. You may have been comfortable doing new construction and made good money at one time, but with the government forcing banks (of course they were willing accomplices) to loan money to people that had no business getting the loans because they were no where near qualified, to people overseas that hate us so bad that they come over here to harm us and our economy, have done great harm that neither side seems to have the will power to fix, as another said, you can only vote for the lesser evil at this time.

Bingo! One thing that I tell people is the economy and businesses are doing as well as they have been is in spite of the current administration. After getting over the shock factor it has been dealing with reality. It is like finding a way to survive with both hands tied behind your back. The will of the business owner is awesome.
It may be very difficult to be but they always seem to find a different way to skin a cat with their drive to survive.
Yes, they brag about saving GM but ignore the number of dealerships around the country that were forced to close and the people that lost their jobs. You never hear about that. They were private sector businesses that were forced to close by our government.

 

[growler]

The reality is that small businesses tend to have a very high failure rate, even forgetting the economy.

This is very true Bob. But even Big business is haveing a pretty high failure rate these days and if the government wasn't bailing them out it would be much worse.

Vote for Growler for president and if I win then at least one of us will have a job. :happyyes:

 

[templdl]

This is very true Bob. But even Big business is haveing a pretty high failure rate these days and if the government wasn't bailing them out it would be much worse.

Vote for Growler for president and if I win then at least one of us will have a job. :happyyes:

But is it robbing Peter to pay Paul? Why does the Gov't need to bail this business out? Do they bail small businesses out? And where does the money come from when they "bail" a business out? That $16t debt is still growing and continues to increase an average of $4.12 billion per day. That figures to $1,600,000,000 per hour.
Please note that inflation must come as our dollar is diluted by more dollars that are printed which takes more dollars to purchase items such as food and gas. Is the price of gas really going up or is our dollar getting to be worth less resulting in so much that it takes more of them to buy a gallon of gas.
The policy, known as quantitative easing and often abbreviated as QE3, entails buying $40 billion in mortgage-backed securities each month. The end date remains up in the air, as the Fed will re-evaluate the strength of the economy in coming months.
Now, where did the $40b come from? They printed this money.
Is this a last ditch effort to save the current president?s butt? As it may actually come back and bite all of our butts with inflation and a distinct possibility of a deeper depression as our dollar is worth less and less.
This isn?t a healthy economy and there is a bunch of Band-Aids being uses to keep it afloat.

 

[bullheimer]

you anti obama people kill me. we were headed for the worst depression in u.s. history and he saved us all from that. that car dealer that went under two years ago, was that his fault? sure it was (sarcastic), not the war against iraq for weapons that didn't exist. no, whose pres won't matter, but getting rid of every gop senator or congressman would. not going to happen because so many of you people can't remember four years ago. bank bail outs, bad. g.m. bail out, completely saved the country. and you want to go back to g.o.p. strategy that got us there in the first place? smoke summore crack. i have $50 in the bank right now and obama's the LAST person on earth i am going to point a finger at. everything he's tried to do the g.o.p. has shot down WITHOUT PUTTING FORTH ANY BETTER PLAN, JUST LIKE ROMNEY. whatta db.... enuf politics. those with the Gold make the Rules. nothing is going to change unless they let charles manson out of prison.

o.p., you gotta diversify, although it might be too late for you now, just like me, (and everybody else), into service work. that is what all the guys have done here and now my business is suffering because of just that. you have to be in phone books and web for that. it has saved me. but just barely. GC's around here illegally do their all the electrical work they can get away with, and are just as much scums as unlicensed electrical/handy men. even moreso. it's unreal that some of them even THINK they are allowed to do wiring!!!!!

i have been applying for jobs lately at Boeing, and hope to close my doors. i can't see working for another elec contractor doing resi tho. i would have such a bad taste in my mouth working for $200/day knowing i am making him $1000, on say, a service change. but i guess it's either that or starve to death. a GC i just wired a house for, is delaying payment till the house is done. says that's how everybody around here does subs. well he is the first in six years to say that, so what am i spozed to do? bend over, that's what. as for estimating. if that is your job i guess that's stress free. if that would have been your company going down the drain with every wrong bid, which the only way to get is to low ball the hell out of it, then it's like bettin the farm on a roll of the dice. i am almost glad i got no credit, so i don't have to bid any of those bluebook jobs anymore. i can't even believe the winners of those bids could even buy material for the prices they bid, let alone pay anybody to do them. i am in a small cow county. i know for sure if i was in a bigger place, like everett, my service work would have been waaaaay better. but here i am, in Podunk. oh well.....

so good luck surviving in the Evil Empire. you and everybody else is going to need it.

 

[copper chopper]

Just imagine what gas being under 2 dollars a gallon would do for everyone

 

[hillbilly1]

you anti obama people kill me. we were headed for the worst depression in u.s. history and he saved us all from that. that car dealer that went under two years ago, was that his fault? sure it was (sarcastic), not the war against iraq for weapons that didn't exist. no, whose pres won't matter, but getting rid of every gop senator or congressman would. not going to happen because so many of you people can't remember four years ago. bank bail outs, bad. g.m. bail out, completely saved the country. and you want to go back to g.o.p. strategy that got us there in the first place? smoke summore crack. i have $50 in the bank right now and obama's the LAST person on earth i am going to point a finger at. everything he's tried to do the g.o.p. has shot down WITHOUT PUTTING FORTH ANY BETTER PLAN, JUST LIKE ROMNEY. whatta db.... enuf politics. those with the Gold make the Rules. nothing is going to change unless they let charles manson out of prison.

o.p., you gotta diversify, although it might be too late for you now, just like me, (and everybody else), into service work. that is what all the guys have done here and now my business is suffering because of just that. you have to be in phone books and web for that. it has saved me. but just barely. GC's around here illegally do their all the electrical work they can get away with, and are just as much scums as unlicensed electrical/handy men. even moreso. it's unreal that some of them even THINK they are allowed to do wiring!!!!!

i have been applying for jobs lately at Boeing, and hope to close my doors. i can't see working for another elec contractor doing resi tho. i would have such a bad taste in my mouth working for $200/day knowing i am making him $1000, on say, a service change. but i guess it's either that or starve to death. a GC i just wired a house for, is delaying payment till the house is done. says that's how everybody around here does subs. well he is the first in six years to say that, so what am i spozed to do? bend over, that's what. as for estimating. if that is your job i guess that's stress free. if that would have been your company going down the drain with every wrong bid, which the only way to get is to low ball the hell out of it, then it's like bettin the farm on a roll of the dice. i am almost glad i got no credit, so i don't have to bid any of those bluebook jobs anymore. i can't even believe the winners of those bids could even buy material for the prices they bid, let alone pay anybody to do them. i am in a small cow county. i know for sure if i was in a bigger place, like everett, my service work would have been waaaaay better. but here i am, in Podunk. oh well.....

so good luck surviving in the Evil Empire. you and everybody else is going to need it.

Obama saved the Unions, not the company, If GM went under, it would have voided all of the bad contracts they agreed to when they were making big money. They would have been able to restructure, and become stronger than ever. When you have one worker supporting 2 and 1/2 retires, you will become unsustainable eventually. The bailout just prolonged the enevitable. I used to buy GM products exclusively, but now will not even consider a new one.