Power out at home

Status
Not open for further replies.

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
120929-1133 EDT

Last evening I had a power outage at home. At about 6:10 PM the lights went out. About 5 to 15 seconds later power reappeared for 1 or 2 seconds. After this nothing. Went around to the neighbors and everyone was out. Talked to a person walking and she said her parents about 1 mile away were without power also. Then on her smart phone we looked at the DTE outage map. It was a large area. Implies a substation problem. Later I determined about 5000 customers were out.

Now I needed to get my generator from the shop and my son had his tilt trailer at home. So about 8 PM my son brought the generator to the house, and we established power.

Unfortunately I had just turn off the TED power monitor about a day ago. If it had been on I might have had a little more information on what occurred, but there is no battery backup on the MTU or RDU.

MTU is the Measuring Transmitting Unit. This is two current transformers, and the chip to measure voltage and power. Some day I will modify this to have battery backup.

The RDU, Receiver and Display Unit, receives data from the MTU displays the data, and ouputs data via USB to a computer.

My week old Smart Meter was blank with no power, and showed no problem when power was restored.

My experiments on my two upright freezers being monitored with Kill-A-Watt EZ meters had problems. The EZ meters are supposed to maintain data from the time of lost power until power is reapplied and continue collection from the prior accumulated values. This capability has worked in bench tests I have run before. But on my freezers in this power outage it is clear that the non-volatile registers were reset or modified, and differently between the two meters. Thus, the EZs can not be depended upon to solve the problem of power loss while doing an experiment. Relates to bad circuit design.

Power was restored at 11:45 PM last night. This morning about 9 AM the street signal lights in the affect area were on flashing red. By 11 AM these were corrected.

Prior to the last several years I have not experienced any power loss as a result of sub-station problems. Now in the past several years there have been four. I believe power system reliability is going down hill and I expect it to get worse. Everyone should have some local generator capability. When I drove around last night there were probably no more than 0.1% to 1% of the homes that had generators. Actually in my very local area there were about 4 generators out of 50 homes. Much better than other parts of the outage area. Some of the more expensive homes had no generators. In fact the most expensive homes had none.

The DTE outage map works very well.

.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
It is just the way things are these days. High prices are some of the driving decision making factors.

POCO may have known there is a problem at the sub, but lets get what we can out of it before spending anything on it. Load is typically increasing faster than generation and distribution is upgraded to handle it also - partly because they don't want to spend the money until they have to, generation may have political issues making it more complex. We as a inhabitants of the planet want more power for all of our technology - but there are also many from the same group that don't want to pay the environmental impact that may be necessary to do so.

Sometimes I come home and see dogs and cats that simply only want food, water, and maybe a little attention and have to wonder just who is really smarter, us or them? I can tell you who is happier overall.
 

SG-1

Senior Member
GAR, did your bench testing include tests that would simulate a POCO recloser ? One instantaneous reclosing, a second try in about 10 to 15 seconds, a third try after 30 seconds, & a fourth try after 45 seconds, or some variation of this. In your case it locked out after two tries.

My kills-a-watt is an older model that does reset itself after a power loss. I live in the middle of nowhere & the power blinks on a regular basis. We have generators, but I usually do not use them unless there is an ice storm & I am pretty sure the power will be off for longer than our water supply can last. We pump our own water from a well, other wise we use our camping supplies for cooking & lights. Since we are in the country we have a lot of battery powered LED lanterns & flashlights, & extra batteries. The POCO is useless in giving a time estimate on an outage.
 

Open Neutral

Senior Member
Location
Inside the Beltway
Occupation
Engineer
Try the PEPCO service area. This summer we were down for 4+ days on the derecho, and then in August we had a T-storm...On that one, when they tried to restore our distribution leg, a branch across the 13KV primaries flashed over, and I mean flashed. (I examined it on the ground later.... well toasted.)

THEN the real issue emerged. PEPCO is highly resistant to customer communication. If you call, you get shunted to a robot who asks you for your account # or phone #; without same it dumps you. If you DO enter that, it tells you your power is out. Gee, I'd never have guessed.

If ever you reach a human, that's all she knows as well. Mention "shorted primary" to her, and she assumes you're an escapee from St. Elizabeth's.

I resolved the issue by driving around until I spotted a PEPCO linetruck, and HE knew what I meant. He followed me, removed the branch, and 4 hours in, we (~100+ houses) were back up 5 minutes later.

BTW, the <200 PEPCO line crew still there just rejected their contract offer.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Try the PEPCO service area. This summer we were down for 4+ days on the derecho, and then in August we had a T-storm...On that one, when they tried to restore our distribution leg, a branch across the 13KV primaries flashed over, and I mean flashed. (I examined it on the ground later.... well toasted.)

THEN the real issue emerged. PEPCO is highly resistant to customer communication. If you call, you get shunted to a robot who asks you for your account # or phone #; without same it dumps you. If you DO enter that, it tells you your power is out. Gee, I'd never have guessed.

If ever you reach a human, that's all she knows as well. Mention "shorted primary" to her, and she assumes you're an escapee from St. Elizabeth's.

I resolved the issue by driving around until I spotted a PEPCO linetruck, and HE knew what I meant. He followed me, removed the branch, and 4 hours in, we (~100+ houses) were back up 5 minutes later.

BTW, the <200 PEPCO line crew still there just rejected their contract offer.
Did you send them a bill for your troubleshooting?:)
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
...with a copy to your state regulators and maybe the local newspaper with a suitably witty retelling of the facts.

I have to say I get along great with the local power suppliers around here - especially the one that supplies my home and majority of area where I work.

They help me out sometimes, I help them out sometimes, when I have problems I have the local supervisors personal cell phone and just call him or a couple of other next in command guys. Being a rural area with miles of lines there is a lot to maintain. I have several times called when I was driving and noticed a wire come loose from an insulator seen broken poles that were still standing - until the wind comes up anyway, or even seen glowing connections after dark, they usually are happy to have extra eyes to notice things like that, and I feel I have not only done them a maintenance favor but possibly helped prevent an accident involving innocent people.
 

Open Neutral

Senior Member
Location
Inside the Beltway
Occupation
Engineer
...with a copy to your state regulators and maybe the local newspaper with a suitably witty retelling of the facts.

I am debating writing the MD-PSC. With so much attention on them, you may actually get a response.

I did file a PSC complaint over the primaries to the neighborhood. At the point it forks from the main road at 45 degrees, it's a 220 ft span and passed through a 100+ft evergreen & a beautiful century elm. The primary comes down repeatedly in storms - thunder & snow; PEPCO's response was to chop more and more from the trees.

But the short leg of the triangle to the next pole is a 100 ft span with NO tree interference; there's already a guy/messenger. When I asked "why not reroute that way and save us all grief?", I got a formal letter back saying in effect "we'll look into it someday...".

The elm died, so I suspect they'll ignore it. PEPCO has the streetlight contract; and while my county has a spiffy GIS app for reporting outages, it's done little to get them actually fixed.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
The elm died, so I suspect they'll ignore it.
I wouldn't be surprised if they did not contribute to the demise of the tree. Used to see POCO's sprinkle stuff on the ground around trees that were threatening lines that killed the trees - not sure what it was. I was just getting started in the trade last time I seen a POCO guy doing that, and don't know if it is still done.
 

Rewire

Senior Member
I wouldn't be surprised if they did not contribute to the demise of the tree. Used to see POCO's sprinkle stuff on the ground around trees that were threatening lines that killed the trees - not sure what it was. I was just getting started in the trade last time I seen a POCO guy doing that, and don't know if it is still done.

I was told it was salt.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top