Sign poles and conductors 600.5 (c) (3) - protection

[wispector]

Looking for input on what constitutes a "pole" when applying 2011 NEC 600.5 (c) (3) which allows poles to be used as raceways. Some signs are obviously using poles, but some signs use an i-beam enclosed in an aluminum or plastic shroud. Would you allow open single conductors in this situation?

I personally think the exception was only intended to allow an actual structural pole to be used in lieu of raceway. Wrapping an interior support in aluminum does not make it a pole or provide much protection IMO. But there is no definition of what a pole is or what thickness the metal should be?

 

[Gregg Harris]

Looking for input on what constitutes a "pole" when applying 2011 NEC 600.5 (c) (3) which allows poles to be used as raceways. Some signs are obviously using poles, but some signs use an i-beam enclosed in an aluminum or plastic shroud. Would you allow open single conductors in this situation?

I personally think the exception was only intended to allow an actual structural pole to be used in lieu of raceway. Wrapping an interior support in aluminum does not make it a pole or provide much protection IMO. But there is no definition of what a pole is or what thickness the metal should be?

Drop back to 410.30 there is criteria for poles in(B)

 

[wispector]

Drop back to 410.30 there is criteria for poles in(B)

410.30 only speaks to hand holes and grounding, not how the pole is constructed and physical protection for the conductors. I find it odd that the code allows dropping single conductors down a sign support structure without defining how the sign structure is made.

Imagine a column in a building that is wrapped in an aluminum skirting with individual conductors under the skirting. No way that would pass. But in the case of a sign we can do this? I believe the exception for sign and lighting poles was for running conductors inside structural poles, not underneath decorative skirting around the pole support.

 

[TimK]

Rating and Listing

Rating and Listing

410.30 only speaks to hand holes and grounding, not how the pole is constructed and physical protection for the conductors. I find it odd that the code allows dropping single conductors down a sign support structure without defining how the sign structure is made.

Imagine a column in a building that is wrapped in an aluminum skirting with individual conductors under the skirting. No way that would pass. But in the case of a sign we can do this? I believe the exception for sign and lighting poles was for running conductors inside structural poles, not underneath decorative skirting around the pole support.

I believe it needs to be listed on the pole as to whether or not you can do that, i have many times in parking lot lights done THWN, maybe out of ignorance, but now that i am with a company that does nothing but highway work all we use is 10/2 pole and bracket cable which is listed for that use.:happyyes:

 

[Gregg Harris]

I believe it needs to be listed on the pole as to whether or not you can do that, i have many times in parking lot lights done THWN, maybe out of ignorance, but now that i am with a company that does nothing but highway work all we use is 10/2 pole and bracket cable which is listed for that use.:happyyes:

There is no problem with your selection of THWN for conductors serving the pole lights.

(C) Wet Locations. Insulated conductors and cables used in wet locations shall comply with one of the following:

1. Be moisture-impervious metal-sheathed
2. Be types MTW, RHW, RHW-2, TW, THW, THW-2, THHW, THWN, THWN-2, XHHW, XHHW-2, ZW
3. Be of a type listed for use in wet locations

 

[TimK]

couldn't agree more

couldn't agree more

There is no problem with your selection of THWN for conductors serving the pole lights.

(C) Wet Locations. Insulated conductors and cables used in wet locations shall comply with one of the following:

1. Be moisture-impervious metal-sheathed
2. Be types MTW, RHW, RHW-2, TW, THW, THW-2, THHW, THWN, THWN-2, XHHW, XHHW-2, ZW
3. Be of a type listed for use in wet locations

Nope, i agree, nothing wrong with conductor. My issue with it now is how individual conductors are supported in the pole, kind of like how service entrance conductors are in conduit up a pole, they basically "bend" them over the end of pipe or connector, IMHO pole and bracket with proper attachment and support is a much better installation.