Sprinklers and smoke detectors

[Hendrix]

I have a four unit apt. building that is sprinkled. The FD wants all of the smokes in all of the units to be activated by the flow of the sprinklers. I can see problems with this. The feed for the smokes will be on the house panel but should someone shut off the breaker for them, due to a nusance, no one will have smokes. Anyone ever dealt with this?

 

[gadfly56]

I have a four unit apt. building that is sprinkled. The FD wants all of the smokes in all of the units to be activated by the flow of the sprinklers. I can see problems with this. The feed for the smokes will be on the house panel but should someone shut off the breaker for them, due to a nusance, no one will have smokes. Anyone ever dealt with this?

Is this a new installation? For one thing, the IBC (IIRC) requires that the smoke alarms for each occupancy be powered from the tenant's panel and forbids interconnecting the smoke alarms from one occupancy with those in another. Otherwise, if 1A burns the popcorn everybody is scooting out into your balmy January weather .

I don't know how they do things in your neck of the woods, but you might ask them (nicely!) to quote chapter and verse on the requirement that this be done per whatever local or state code.

Finally, I don't know of any manufacturer of smoke alarms (eg Kidde) that offers a UL-listed accessory device to do what the FD wants.

There remains the issue of supervision; smoke alarms aren't.

I think the only way to properly implement the FD's requirement is to install a full-blown FACP, tie in a supervised flow switch, and drop a notification appliance in each unit. Now everyone will be notified on waterflow but not when someone overcooks the turkey.

 

[Hendrix]

Thanks, I agree. Do you have a section of the IBC that I can referance?

 

[masterinbama]

You need to wire horn/strobes to the flow switch in the sprinkler riser. I believe this will have to be done with a FA panel.

 

[masterinbama]

How did I miss
gadfly56's post?

 

[Hendrix]

You need to wire horn/strobes to the flow switch in the sprinkler riser. I believe this will have to be done with a FA panel.

Yes, but I need to show the FD a code section that prohibits tying all smokes together.

 

[RICK NAPIER]

2009 IBC 907.2.11.3 Interconnection. Where more than one smoke alarm is required to be installed within an individual dwelling unit or sleeping unit in Group R-1, R-2, R-3 or R-4, the smoke alarms shall be interconnected in such a manner that the activation of one alarm will activate all of the alarms in the individual unit. The alarm shall be clearly audible in all bedrooms over background noise levels with all intervening doors closed. [F]

2007 NFPA 11.5.2.2 Unless otherwise permitted by the AHJ audible fire alarm signals shall sound only in an individual dwelling unit, suite of rooms, or similar area and shall not be arranged to operate fire warning equipment or fire alarm systems outside these locations.

He is the inspector get him to show you were it is required.

 

[dhalleron]

I can't find an install sheet on their website only a cutsheet, but Kidde Smoke alarms can be interconnected to Kidde relay model SM120X. Normally this relay is used to activate auxiliary devices when the smoke alarms sound. I have an older installation sheet that shows how to connect the SM120X to a normally open contact such as a pull station, heat detector or waterflow switch. The closure of the normally open contact to the SM120X will cause the interconnected smoke alarms to sound. I don't know if they still support this type of connection.

Using the SM120X still might not allow you to tie a waterflow switch to multiple apartments individual interconnected smoke alarms due to them being on separate branch circuits. Also that might be considered interconnecting more than 12 smoke alarms that are not supervised.

Also if there is a way to interconnect the relay to a waterflow switch and the individual apartments, there may be no way to stop one apartment from sounding alarms in another apartment due to the way the relay would need to be connected.

From NFPA 72 2010 Edition:
29.8.2.2* The interconnection of smoke or heat alarms shall
comply with the following:
(1) Smoke or heat alarms shall not be interconnected in
numbers that exceed the manufacturer’s published instructions.
(2) In no case shall more than 18 initiating devices be interconnected
(of which 12 can be smoke alarms) where the
interconnecting means is not supervised.
(3) In no case shall more than 64 initiating devices be interconnected
(of which 42 can be smoke alarms) where the
interconnecting means is supervised.
(4) Smoke or heat alarms shall not be interconnected with
alarms from other manufacturers unless listed as being
compatible with the specific model.
(5) When alarms of different types are interconnected, all interconnected
alarms shall produce the appropriate audible
response for the phenomena being detected or remain
silent.

 

[gadfly56]

I can't find an install sheet on their website only a cutsheet, but Kidde Smoke alarms can be interconnected to Kidde relay model SM120X. Normally this relay is used to activate auxiliary devices when the smoke alarms sound. I have an older installation sheet that shows how to connect the SM120X to a normally open contact such as a pull station, heat detector or waterflow switch. The closure of the normally open contact to the SM120X will cause the interconnected smoke alarms to sound. I don't know if they still support this type of connection.

Using the SM120X still might not allow you to tie a waterflow switch to multiple apartments individual interconnected smoke alarms due to them being on separate branch circuits. Also that might be considered interconnecting more than 12 smoke alarms that are not supervised.

Also if there is a way to interconnect the relay to a waterflow switch and the individual apartments, there may be no way to stop one apartment from sounding alarms in another apartment due to the way the relay would need to be connected.

From NFPA 72 2010 Edition:
29.8.2.2* The interconnection of smoke or heat alarms shall
comply with the following:
(1) Smoke or heat alarms shall not be interconnected in
numbers that exceed the manufacturer?s published instructions.
(2) In no case shall more than 18 initiating devices be interconnected
(of which 12 can be smoke alarms) where the
interconnecting means is not supervised.
(3) In no case shall more than 64 initiating devices be interconnected
(of which 42 can be smoke alarms) where the
interconnecting means is supervised.
(4) Smoke or heat alarms shall not be interconnected with
alarms from other manufacturers unless listed as being
compatible with the specific model.
(5) When alarms of different types are interconnected, all interconnected
alarms shall produce the appropriate audible
response for the phenomena being detected or remain
silent.

Check here for those who are interested, and by the way, good find! It still doesn't solve the supervision issue, unfortunately.

 

[Hendrix]

Check here for those who are interested, and by the way, good find! It still doesn't solve the supervision issue, unfortunately.

nothing comes up

 

[Hendrix]

2009 IBC 907.2.11.3 Interconnection. Where more than one smoke alarm is required to be installed within an individual dwelling unit or sleeping unit in Group R-1, R-2, R-3 or R-4, the smoke alarms shall be interconnected in such a manner that the activation of one alarm will activate all of the alarms in the individual unit. The alarm shall be clearly audible in all bedrooms over background noise levels with all intervening doors closed. [F]

2007 NFPA 11.5.2.2 Unless otherwise permitted by the AHJ audible fire alarm signals shall sound only in an individual dwelling unit, suite of rooms, or similar area and shall not be arranged to operate fire warning equipment or fire alarm systems outside these locations.

He is the inspector get him to show you were it is required.

which NFPA is this?

 

[gadfly56]

which NFPA is this?

Ummmm, 2007? Of NFPA 72.

 

[Hendrix]

Thanks :ashamed1: